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PM In Act I I felt quite simpathy towards the squirrels and let them take the goods, althought I didn't aprove their methods.
From Act II to Act IV I sided with the Order , why? Because I saw them as warrants of civil estability and order, mainly because of the good impresion I had from Siegfried..... but as the game progresed I started to se more and more things that I didn't like about them (racism, religious fanatism, totalitarian tendencies.......), by Act IV I couldn't bare with it..... and when I saw that White Rayla was removed from the operation at Murky waters by Siegfried's orders because she could be too soft with elves it was the turning point for me.
Anyway didn't wnat either to side with Scoia'tel, I totally understood their cause, but their methods were totally counterproductive.
ssssssssssssssss
[GENERAL] Who do you support - Squirrels or Knights?
03.12.2011 @ 06:14 #342
Vic_R said:
Anyway didn't wnat either to side with Scoia'tel, I totally understood their cause, but their methods were totally counterproductive. ›››
If you side with the Scoia'tael, at the beginning of Chapter 5, Zoltan meets you at the dock and tells you that the Order has started killing non-human woman and children, non-humans who aren't members of the Scoia'tael.
Zoltan was scathing about the Scoia'tael in Chapter 1, but by Chapter 5, the non-humans have become the victims of intentional genocide, and their only options are fighting back or being wiped out.
If you don't side with the Scoia'tael, if I remember correctly, Zoltan doesn't meet you at the dock, and you never learn that the Order is killing non-combatants, non-Scoia'tael, and even children. If you side with the Scoia'tael, in Chapter 5, Siegfried -- who has previously seemed fair-minded and nice -- reveals a very ugly side and tells Geralt that he needs to be killed because he's a mutant. So the story changes a bit, depending on who you side with!
Want to be IN a computer game? I'm making one, and I want a picture of you! See here for details.
I've made three new adventures for TW1; you can get them at corylea.com/.
I've also made a bunch of mods that fix bugs, kill annoyances or tweak gameplay; you can get those at the Witcher Nexus.
I've made three new adventures for TW1; you can get them at corylea.com/.
I've also made a bunch of mods that fix bugs, kill annoyances or tweak gameplay; you can get those at the Witcher Nexus.
02.02.2012 @ 07:51 #344
I initially sided with the Order because I supported the notion of human dominance but my support for them grew after interacting with Siegfried(fave character of the games) and seeing the other good deeds they did for humanity such as monster hunting and cracking down on the Scoia'tael. Speaking of the latter group, their banditry(in village outskirts and the bank)and Yaevinn's general douchebaggery only served to further cement my support for the Order.
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17.02.2012 @ 22:21 #346
Sorry for the wall of text. I'm new to the forum and finally had a chance to share my views on this so I might have gone a bit overboard XD.
Anyways...
I don't exactly support either of them but when it comes to my first playthrough it was a pretty automatic choice. I sided with the Order and my reasons were simple: I immediately took a liking to Siegfried and since the Order looked richer and their presence more dominant I thought they could benefit me more (yes I’m often a greedy bitch in games
). I did feel an urge to join the Squirrels since I didn’t like the treatment the non-humans were receiving and I felt a connection because Geralt was kinda an outsider as well. But then Siegfried “the racist fanatic”, had immediately accepted Geralt “the freak”, and was being polite, respectful and helpful. He managed to be the first character that I actually cared about. Well, besides Zoltan, but that was different since he and Geralt already shared a past while Siegfried instead was a totally new face. A friendly face among all of those suspicious characters.
I do like Yeavinn as well but he didn’t create the similar kind of attachment Siegfried did. While Yeavinn gave those high and mighty speeches, Siegfried remained more on the equal ground with Geralt. To me Yeavinn felt more like someone who was lecturing Geralt, someone who regarded himself above the witcher, while Siegfried instead felt more like a… friend. His speeches concerning the Order and the Scoia’tel were brief (mostly just random little comments), he didn’t hide any information and he easily understood and accepted Geralt’s uninterest to join the Order as one of the knights. He didn’t seem to aim to “mess with Geralt’s head”.
There do were moments when I had to sit down and think. First time was at the swamp. I met Yeavinn and liked him as well which made me consider my choices. However, I soon came to a conclusion that I actually didn’t give a crap about their little war and about which side would win. I would have just walked away but I didn’t want Siegfried, whose friendship I valued, to get hurt and so, just in case, the side was chosen. At the bank, came the other situation where I considered my standing on the whole thing. I felt disappointed at how Siegfried completely refused to negotiate with the elves but then I started to think it from his POV. Not too long ago we had discovered those elves at the cemetery and their nice little game of capturing civilians and feeding them to monsters. After I had saved the humans, I talked with Siegfried and he showed that he cared more about the human lives than slaughtering the ones responsible. In the bank situation, the non-humans once again threatened civilians. With the earlier incident in mind, I wasn’t surprised that this time the guy didn’t want to let them get away with it. Of course I know that the cemetery quest doesn’t necessarily happen before the bank but I doubt it was the only incident with the elves and civilians so I understand where his views come from, even if I didn’t agree with him. “We don’t negotiate with terrorists” is a familiar statement and one that’s easy to understand. That doesn’t mean I didn’t sympathize with the non-humans during the bank incident though. (I went to hear them out and tried to find a peaceful solution.)
But in the end it came down to the question: whose friendship I valued more and the answer was pretty clear =P. So yeah, the character representing the faction meant more to me than all other jazz. LoL.
I didn't regret my decision. I think the Order path made more dramatic story and the way how Geralt was kinda guiding Siegfried was an interesting progress.
When I think about the moral choices, IMO there's too much hatred and too much fanaticism from both sides. The game seemed to nudge you towards the Squirrels though, thanks to Dandelion and Zoltan. Dandelion expressed his distaste towards the Order rather clearly and since Zoltan is a dwarf it makes it look like Geralt shouldn’t take the Order’s side. Zoltan did say that the Squirrels are just a bunch of idiots, making it clear that not all nonhumans agree with them, but still...
The Squirrels have been made easier to sympathize with since they are the underdogs but if you dismiss your immediate “the ones who are driven to poverty are the victims” –reaction, you can see that they really aren’t that different. These elves are no less racist than humans are: they think humans are below them, worthless apes with no place in the future. I think that if the elves were the dominate species, the humans would be the ones oppressed. It all really reminds me of packs of different wolf breeds or something. Both aim to dominate and to make their living area bigger and richer... and they just can't get along with the other pack.
And before anyone mentions the Grand Master and his position as the game’s antagonist (“Omg so they must all be evil!”): the Order is not Aldersberg. It has existed before he came (albeit with a different name) and started using them for his own intentions; hiding his real self behind ideologies and concealing his crimes by making factions like Salamandra do the dirty work. From one dialogue with a merchant you can hear that the knights were once proud, but thanks to Aldersberg and his hate for non-humans, they are now racist. Creating mutants, hiring criminal organizations and other shit like that wasn’t part of their job before Aldersberg came to the picture. The Order itself wasn’t the enemy of the King or the enemy of Geralt. Their leader was.
Heck, many of the Order members didn’t even seem to know about their leader’s deal with the Salamandra. If you’re in good terms with Siegfried, he and his troops willingly help you to attack the Salamandra base more than once (which tells pretty clearly that they are clueless) and if you are still Siegfried’s friend in the end, he trusts you and your judgment and thus aims to rid the Order of the Grand Master and put the faction back on track. Your friendship has had an effect on him since he now truly views Salamandra as bad business and is ashamed of the Order’s involvement. If you aren’t his friend, he remains loyal to the Grand Master but is that such a “oh no he’s eeeevil” -thing? IMO Siegfried’s far from evil but he’s naive which can be a dangerous trait in a human. If Geralt hasn’t earned his trust and hasn’t shown that they are on the same side, he puts all his trust to his master who he thinks is a great idealist. You must admit, the guy has pretty good reasons for his doings. The methods are an entirely different thing but when he’s talking about his great intentions to his lackeys, I’m sure he leaves a lot of things out from the story, thus making himself seem like some kind of holy savior of the mankind.
I mean… even I who knew of ALL the past crimes, stopped to think: “That dude actually has a point.” So, in case you didn’t choose the Order path, why would someone like Siegfried join forces with a witcher who only has his own interests in mind and/or keeps jumping from one side to another OR is sided with the Squirrels? Why would he suddenly put Geralt and some other random blokes above his own leader, especially if he doesn’t know of all the fine details? Bad choice it might be, but there's a reason for that too and it’s not something like: “Bwahaha! I’m doing this because it’s good to be bad."
I’m NOT trying to prove that the Order would be better than the Squirrels by saying this. Oh no, I’m just trying to point out that it’s unfair to judge the whole faction only because of Aldersberg's position as the game’s antagonist; as the enemy of Geralt.
Anyways...
I don't exactly support either of them but when it comes to my first playthrough it was a pretty automatic choice. I sided with the Order and my reasons were simple: I immediately took a liking to Siegfried and since the Order looked richer and their presence more dominant I thought they could benefit me more (yes I’m often a greedy bitch in games
). I did feel an urge to join the Squirrels since I didn’t like the treatment the non-humans were receiving and I felt a connection because Geralt was kinda an outsider as well. But then Siegfried “the racist fanatic”, had immediately accepted Geralt “the freak”, and was being polite, respectful and helpful. He managed to be the first character that I actually cared about. Well, besides Zoltan, but that was different since he and Geralt already shared a past while Siegfried instead was a totally new face. A friendly face among all of those suspicious characters.I do like Yeavinn as well but he didn’t create the similar kind of attachment Siegfried did. While Yeavinn gave those high and mighty speeches, Siegfried remained more on the equal ground with Geralt. To me Yeavinn felt more like someone who was lecturing Geralt, someone who regarded himself above the witcher, while Siegfried instead felt more like a… friend. His speeches concerning the Order and the Scoia’tel were brief (mostly just random little comments), he didn’t hide any information and he easily understood and accepted Geralt’s uninterest to join the Order as one of the knights. He didn’t seem to aim to “mess with Geralt’s head”.
There do were moments when I had to sit down and think. First time was at the swamp. I met Yeavinn and liked him as well which made me consider my choices. However, I soon came to a conclusion that I actually didn’t give a crap about their little war and about which side would win. I would have just walked away but I didn’t want Siegfried, whose friendship I valued, to get hurt and so, just in case, the side was chosen. At the bank, came the other situation where I considered my standing on the whole thing. I felt disappointed at how Siegfried completely refused to negotiate with the elves but then I started to think it from his POV. Not too long ago we had discovered those elves at the cemetery and their nice little game of capturing civilians and feeding them to monsters. After I had saved the humans, I talked with Siegfried and he showed that he cared more about the human lives than slaughtering the ones responsible. In the bank situation, the non-humans once again threatened civilians. With the earlier incident in mind, I wasn’t surprised that this time the guy didn’t want to let them get away with it. Of course I know that the cemetery quest doesn’t necessarily happen before the bank but I doubt it was the only incident with the elves and civilians so I understand where his views come from, even if I didn’t agree with him. “We don’t negotiate with terrorists” is a familiar statement and one that’s easy to understand. That doesn’t mean I didn’t sympathize with the non-humans during the bank incident though. (I went to hear them out and tried to find a peaceful solution.)
But in the end it came down to the question: whose friendship I valued more and the answer was pretty clear =P. So yeah, the character representing the faction meant more to me than all other jazz. LoL.
I didn't regret my decision. I think the Order path made more dramatic story and the way how Geralt was kinda guiding Siegfried was an interesting progress.
When I think about the moral choices, IMO there's too much hatred and too much fanaticism from both sides. The game seemed to nudge you towards the Squirrels though, thanks to Dandelion and Zoltan. Dandelion expressed his distaste towards the Order rather clearly and since Zoltan is a dwarf it makes it look like Geralt shouldn’t take the Order’s side. Zoltan did say that the Squirrels are just a bunch of idiots, making it clear that not all nonhumans agree with them, but still...
The Squirrels have been made easier to sympathize with since they are the underdogs but if you dismiss your immediate “the ones who are driven to poverty are the victims” –reaction, you can see that they really aren’t that different. These elves are no less racist than humans are: they think humans are below them, worthless apes with no place in the future. I think that if the elves were the dominate species, the humans would be the ones oppressed. It all really reminds me of packs of different wolf breeds or something. Both aim to dominate and to make their living area bigger and richer... and they just can't get along with the other pack.
And before anyone mentions the Grand Master and his position as the game’s antagonist (“Omg so they must all be evil!”): the Order is not Aldersberg. It has existed before he came (albeit with a different name) and started using them for his own intentions; hiding his real self behind ideologies and concealing his crimes by making factions like Salamandra do the dirty work. From one dialogue with a merchant you can hear that the knights were once proud, but thanks to Aldersberg and his hate for non-humans, they are now racist. Creating mutants, hiring criminal organizations and other shit like that wasn’t part of their job before Aldersberg came to the picture. The Order itself wasn’t the enemy of the King or the enemy of Geralt. Their leader was.
Heck, many of the Order members didn’t even seem to know about their leader’s deal with the Salamandra. If you’re in good terms with Siegfried, he and his troops willingly help you to attack the Salamandra base more than once (which tells pretty clearly that they are clueless) and if you are still Siegfried’s friend in the end, he trusts you and your judgment and thus aims to rid the Order of the Grand Master and put the faction back on track. Your friendship has had an effect on him since he now truly views Salamandra as bad business and is ashamed of the Order’s involvement. If you aren’t his friend, he remains loyal to the Grand Master but is that such a “oh no he’s eeeevil” -thing? IMO Siegfried’s far from evil but he’s naive which can be a dangerous trait in a human. If Geralt hasn’t earned his trust and hasn’t shown that they are on the same side, he puts all his trust to his master who he thinks is a great idealist. You must admit, the guy has pretty good reasons for his doings. The methods are an entirely different thing but when he’s talking about his great intentions to his lackeys, I’m sure he leaves a lot of things out from the story, thus making himself seem like some kind of holy savior of the mankind.
I mean… even I who knew of ALL the past crimes, stopped to think: “That dude actually has a point.” So, in case you didn’t choose the Order path, why would someone like Siegfried join forces with a witcher who only has his own interests in mind and/or keeps jumping from one side to another OR is sided with the Squirrels? Why would he suddenly put Geralt and some other random blokes above his own leader, especially if he doesn’t know of all the fine details? Bad choice it might be, but there's a reason for that too and it’s not something like: “Bwahaha! I’m doing this because it’s good to be bad."
I’m NOT trying to prove that the Order would be better than the Squirrels by saying this. Oh no, I’m just trying to point out that it’s unfair to judge the whole faction only because of Aldersberg's position as the game’s antagonist; as the enemy of Geralt.
23.02.2012 @ 19:31 #348
Corylea said:
If you side with the Scoia'tael, at the beginning of Chapter 5, Zoltan meets you at the dock and tells you that the Order has started killing non-human woman and children, non-humans who aren't members of the Scoia'tael.
Zoltan was scathing about the Scoia'tael in Chapter 1, but by Chapter 5, the non-humans have become the victims of intentional genocide, and their only options are fighting back or being wiped out.
If you don't side with the Scoia'tael, if I remember correctly, Zoltan doesn't meet you at the dock, and you never learn that the Order is killing non-combatants, non-Scoia'tael, and even children. If you side with the Scoia'tael, in Chapter 5, Siegfried -- who has previously seemed fair-minded and nice -- reveals a very ugly side and tells Geralt that he needs to be killed because he's a mutant. So the story changes a bit, depending on who you side with! ›››
Zoltan was scathing about the Scoia'tael in Chapter 1, but by Chapter 5, the non-humans have become the victims of intentional genocide, and their only options are fighting back or being wiped out.
If you don't side with the Scoia'tael, if I remember correctly, Zoltan doesn't meet you at the dock, and you never learn that the Order is killing non-combatants, non-Scoia'tael, and even children. If you side with the Scoia'tael, in Chapter 5, Siegfried -- who has previously seemed fair-minded and nice -- reveals a very ugly side and tells Geralt that he needs to be killed because he's a mutant. So the story changes a bit, depending on who you side with! ›››
No he still meets you at the docks on all paths. If you side with the Order he's pissed at you, calls you are bastard and tells you your Order buddies are slaughtering nohuman civilians if I remember correctly so that happened either way.
Who you side with changes whether the squirrels or knights attack hospital tho.
23.02.2012 @ 22:03 #349
Atalyah said:
No he still meets you at the docks on all paths. If you side with the Order he's pissed at you, calls you are bastard and tells you your Order buddies are slaughtering nohuman civilians if I remember correctly so that happened either way.
Who you side with changes whether the squirrels or knights attack hospital tho. ›››
Who you side with changes whether the squirrels or knights attack hospital tho. ›››
No one is a smith at birth.
26.03.2012 @ 22:50 #350
I chose the Scoi'atel on my first playthrough. I don't know why, it just felt right. The Scoi'atel are not noble, butI supported their goal. I also loved Yaevinn. He's a cool character.
I chose the neutral path in my 2nd playthrough. Never sided with the Order, because they are assholes and they suck!
I chose the neutral path in my 2nd playthrough. Never sided with the Order, because they are assholes and they suck!
28.03.2012 @ 12:56 #351
C'mon give Siegfried a try 
If you side with him it doesn't mean you support de Aldersberg.
If you side with him it doesn't mean you support de Aldersberg.
I can see what you see not, Visions milky then eyes rot.
When you turn they will be gone, whispering their hidden song.
Then you see what cannot be, shadows move where light should be.
Out of darkness, out of mind – cast down into the Halls of the Blind…
When you turn they will be gone, whispering their hidden song.
Then you see what cannot be, shadows move where light should be.
Out of darkness, out of mind – cast down into the Halls of the Blind…
30.03.2012 @ 20:55 #353
What I don't like about Siegfried is that when you remain neutral or decide to support squirrels, at the end of the game he turns into a coldless blood psychopat with his mutant pack.
And now... I don't know... I think this is a scenaristic ''hole'', I guess CDprojeckt wanted to make the player feels like whatever decision he made it was the good one.
So if you decide to support Siegfried he seems decent and if not, he turns into what I mentioned before.
Still there is one thing I hate about supporting the order is how my dwarf pal is pissed and delete me from his friend list.
And now... I don't know... I think this is a scenaristic ''hole'', I guess CDprojeckt wanted to make the player feels like whatever decision he made it was the good one.
So if you decide to support Siegfried he seems decent and if not, he turns into what I mentioned before.
Still there is one thing I hate about supporting the order is how my dwarf pal is pissed and delete me from his friend list.
18.04.2012 @ 11:14 #357
Solescape said:
I just started a new game and was planning to do the opposite of my decisions last time but I ended up supporting the Squirrels again!
Even though the choice is available, it's just more fun and natural for me to side with them. How about you - what is your preference? ›››
Even though the choice is available, it's just more fun and natural for me to side with them. How about you - what is your preference? ›››
I tried to stay as neutral as possible for as long as possible. That being said, when hell broke loose, I chose to support the squirrels - in my own witcher kind of way.
25.04.2012 @ 23:12 #358
sloul said:
What I don't like about Siegfried is that when you remain neutral or decide to support squirrels, at the end of the game he turns into a coldless blood psychopat with his mutant pack.
And now... I don't know... I think this is a scenaristic ''hole'', I guess CDprojeckt wanted to make the player feels like whatever decision he made it was the good one.
So if you decide to support Siegfried he seems decent and if not, he turns into what I mentioned before.
Still there is one thing I hate about supporting the order is how my dwarf pal is pissed and delete me from his friend list. ›››
And now... I don't know... I think this is a scenaristic ''hole'', I guess CDprojeckt wanted to make the player feels like whatever decision he made it was the good one.
So if you decide to support Siegfried he seems decent and if not, he turns into what I mentioned before.
Still there is one thing I hate about supporting the order is how my dwarf pal is pissed and delete me from his friend list. ›››
Possible outcome spoiler:
No one is a smith at birth.
29.04.2012 @ 06:00 #359
ahh...
the price of neutruality..
witchers care not for politics..they care about orens, especially if they can attain them by removing curses or other supernatural phenomenon.
the original ghostbuster, if you will.
they gonna kill each other whether or not geralt gets involved anyway.
the price of neutruality..
witchers care not for politics..they care about orens, especially if they can attain them by removing curses or other supernatural phenomenon.
the original ghostbuster, if you will.
they gonna kill each other whether or not geralt gets involved anyway.
"I warned you not to go out at night, drunk, starting fights with monsters...you frighten me."
please, bring back the vs. flash game!
please, bring back the vs. flash game!
01.06.2012 @ 22:51 #360
I've played the first game several times now, often because I wanted to try out "the other side" but I always side with the order 
I just like Siegfried a lot more than Yaevin. Siegfried is chivalrous, he does not frown at Geralt for being a mutant and he just seems like such a bro. Something that strenghtened my belief in the order was how Siegfried reacts when you save the hostages in the cemetery rather than hunt down the scoia'tael. He's proud of Geralt for having saved the innocents meaning that Siegfried isn't just some bloodthirsty savage out to spill elven blood. His order might have its flaws, quite a lot of them, but Siegfried is a true knight and I always make my Geralt believe that Siegfried can get the order back on track and give it a real purpose again 
I just like Siegfried a lot more than Yaevin. Siegfried is chivalrous, he does not frown at Geralt for being a mutant and he just seems like such a bro. Something that strenghtened my belief in the order was how Siegfried reacts when you save the hostages in the cemetery rather than hunt down the scoia'tael. He's proud of Geralt for having saved the innocents meaning that Siegfried isn't just some bloodthirsty savage out to spill elven blood. His order might have its flaws, quite a lot of them, but Siegfried is a true knight and I always make my Geralt believe that Siegfried can get the order back on track and give it a real purpose again
