[Agrippa da Rippa]

Spoilers Ahead!

Throughout the course of TW1 and TW2, it seems that the Wild Hunt (Aen Elle riders) is looking for sources (Alvin/Aldersberg and Ciri), and some have speculated that they are in fact preparing for a massive invasion of the Continent once they gain the magical means to transport their invasion fleet.

At first, I thought, like many other players, that Nilfgaard was an inherent evil foe that must be halted at any cost. However, after my first playthrough, I thought of what I mentioned above and really wondered whether a strong North that would drag Nilfgaard into a grueling, extended war while the otherworldly spectral riders are just waiting to clean up was really for the best.

And then I thought... maybe Letho was on the right track: revitalize the near-extinct Witcher order, and travel south "where the good life awaits." Come to think of it, Nilfgaard is much more advanced than the Northern Kingdoms in terms of culture, technology, and policy (they don't treat elves like second class citizens).

Thoughts?

[vivaxardas]

Well, this is something that for me looks like a natural development for a TW Universe. May be in TW4 we'll have an unhappily but prudently united continent fighting an invasion from the other world. A gun shown in the prologue, should be shut at the ending, isn't it? In this case, yes, a unification of the entire continent under a single leadership will be paramount to everybody's survival in the war against the elves who massacre everybody indiscriminately to cleanse the land for themselves.

[Chippings]

Agrippa da Rippa said:

Come to think of it, Nilfgaard is much more advanced than the Northern Kingdoms in terms of culture, technology, and policy (they don't treat elves like second class citizens). ›››

Can you provide evidence in support of this claim? I agree that Nilfgaard isn't necessarily the greater evil; Letho may be right. Nilfgaard, to my loose knowledge, does indeed have better technology. I was under the impression, however, their culture and political system is authoritarian. It is very possible that, despite their lack of freedoms, they may treat elves better than the Northern Kingdoms, who are violently racist. The humans and dwarves may prefer their relative freedoms in the north, though.

So basically, my question is this: what makes their culture and political system better? Also, any information regarding their technology would be appreciated.

[MarcvsLavrentivs]

This is something I did often think about while playing through the Witcher 2 (I have yet to read more of the books). I do not think that Nilfgaard is/should be portrayed as the stareotypical evil empire, since the world of the Witcher is not one of black and white, but many, many shades of grey.

I always thought that you could regard the Empire of Nilfgaard 'Machiavellan' (though not in a negative manner as such). Machiavellan in the sense that Nilfgaard's nature is ruthless, cunning, and brutally efficient. It is a phenomenon, I believe, that does not exist within the construct of so-called human 'morality', a political and cultural body that is not afraid to get its hands dirty in pursuit of that which is deemed (by them)to be necessary.

[Agrippa da Rippa]

Chippings said:

Can you provide evidence in support of this claim? I agree that Nilfgaard isn't necessarily the greater evil; Letho may be right. Nilfgaard, to my loose knowledge, does indeed have better technology. I was under the impression, however, their culture and political system is authoritarian. It is very possible that, despite their lack of freedoms, they may treat elves better than the Northern Kingdoms, who are violently racist. The humans and dwarves may prefer their relative freedoms in the north, though.

So basically, my question is this: what makes their culture and political system better? Also, any information regarding their technology would be appreciated. ›››

Nilfgaard is very authoritarian, but unless you're counting the Free Pontar/Upper Aedirn faction, the Northern Kingdoms are all devoid of democracy as well; anything other than Absolute Monarchy in the Continent (at least on human lands) was unthinkable. Nilfgaard, however, is somehow able to maintain that extreme degree of centralization (where everyone unwaveringly obeys the Emperor's every edict seemingly immediately) despite being by far the largest nation on the Continent. Thus, while ALL the human kingdoms may seem backwards to us due to them being authoritarian, Nilfgaard manages to be much more efficient in ruling their people with absolute power.

In terms of culture, they are more advanced on virtue of them being much more accepting of Elvish culture, as evidenced by their language (which is derived from Elder Speech) and by their pride in the Elven blood that runs through their veins.

Technology is a harder thing to argue due to my relative lack of knowledge of the contents of the novels and the minimalistic take on the lore by CDPR (i.e. we barely know what lies north of the Northern Kingdoms, south of Nilfgaard, east of Zerrikania/Haakland, or west of the Great Sea). However, going by the items in the game (Nilfgaardian swords and armor being generally better quality than their northern counterparts) and the way the Black Ones are represented as troops of the highest calibre, I'd say there's definitely a case for a Nilfgaardian technological advantage.

[vivaxardas]

May be we should have a poll about gamers' attitudes toward Nilfgaard. I hope CDPR got an idea already, and won't present Nilfgaard as Mordor full of goblins, but who knows? I really want to have out of 36 political situation options at least one where Nilfgaard wins hands down, and completely beats up the North into submission. Ahh, does it make me evil?

[MarcvsLavrentivs]

vivaxardas said:

May be we should have a poll about gamers' attitudes toward Nilfgaard. I hope CDPR got an idea already, and won't present Nilfgaard as Mordor full of goblins, but who knows? I really want to have out of 36 political situation options at least one where Nilfgaard wins hands down, and completely beats up the North into submission. Ahh, does it make me evil? ›››

I've always had an interest in Nilfgaard ever since I came across them reading The Blood of Elves, and also seeing their soldiery in the Witcher 2, I find them quite fascinating for some reason.

I was thinking earlier too, it would be good to come across some more Nilfgaardian characters in TW3, ones that are given a more human face, rather than that of the cold-hearted statesman.

[vivaxardas]

MarcvsLavrentivs said:

I've always had an interest in Nilfgaard ever since I came across them reading The Blood of Elves, and also seeing their soldiery in the Witcher 2, I find them quite fascinating for some reason.

I was thinking earlier too, it would be good to come across some more Nilfgaardian characters in TW3, ones that are given a more human face, rather than that of the cold-hearted statesman. ›››

Well, I actually like Shilard. The man has an important mission, he is just doing his duty, something I can appreciate. He is more relaxed in the beginning of the game, and in Henselt's camp, and really tense in Loch Muinne. I always come to talk to him, he growls something, looks suspiciously - obviously can't wait for a big day, knowing full well he may not live to see it. And I always think - chill, old man. I am not planning to off you. Go have your glorious appearance, it is freaking fun to watch. I do not play Iorweth path anymore because I don't really feel like beating him up at all. May be it is because as a contractor, I spent three years guarding one of the Russian embassies on the Middle East, so I simply do not feel like killing ambassadors even in the game.

[FoggyFishburne]

That'd be an interesting twist. All Kingdoms of the North must unite with Nilfgaard in order to stand a chance against the spectral invasion. Will they stand together or fall alone. While Geralt has to "protect" Ciri so that the Wild Hunt, who are hunting Ciri now, don't end up catching her and unleashing hell. That's probably not what's going to happen but cool notion.

Can't wait for the game!

[KnightofPhoenix]

FoggyFishburne said:

That'd be an interesting twist. All Kingdoms of the North must unite with Nilfgaard in order to stand a chance against the spectral invasion. ›››

No, it's done to death. I'd most likely hate it.

[bcheero]

KnightofPhoenix said:

No, it's done to death. I'd most likely hate it. ›››

I agree. It's not anything unique and quite frankly there are too many damn games that have used the whole "unite everyone and fight for the lost." I'd much rather see CDPR do something unique in an RPG, like they did with the Witcher 2.

[slimgrin]

FoggyFishburne said:

That'd be an interesting twist. All Kingdoms of the North must unite with Nilfgaard in order to stand a chance against the spectral invasion. Will they stand together or fall alone. While Geralt has to "protect" Ciri so that the Wild Hunt, who are hunting Ciri now, don't end up catching her and unleashing hell. That's probably not what's going to happen but cool notion.
›››

That would be the worst twist possible for a Witcher game. I pray its not like this. No offense, but TW is the anti-Tolkien. I hope CDPR keeps it that way. In fact, I have an altar in my basement, a mess of effigies built specifically for the purpose of CDPR not turning this game into another fucking generic bullshit fantasy. I know they can do it...just one game to go.

[vivaxardas]

More then one, I guess. They will be done with Gerald, but not with TW Universe. In TW 4 they'll have to come up with another conflict, and just a mess in the North again, or confrontation with Nilfgaard won't do it. I hope they'll come up with something good, but in this they will be on their own, nothing in The Witcher books would help. Right now in TW3 they are still cashing in on Gerald's story, so we are good here.

[arkblazer]

Ok ive sort of read similar threads lately but never gotten into the discussion. so let me put my 2cents. first of all, ive read the whole saga and i think that the whole nilfgaard is totalitarian is a little overrated. i think the reason that its said they are totalitarian is mostly because of the "oppression" of magicians.

but in truth less that they oppress them and more that they are kept in check. in the north a magician can throw lightning bolts or turn someone into a frog and stuff like that and can get away with it while if they do stuff like that in nilfgaard they obviously will get arrested. another thing is that unlike the north that they are treated like royalty in nilfgaard and they are treated more like normal beurocrats and are poorer. But if you actually consider that they are being burned at the stake in the north then niflgaard is not so bad.

another thing that could be why they are called authoritarian is that the noble class looks down at rowdy behaviour that might why they arde called authoritarian but then again thats the noble class so ofcourse that would be the cased. besides that, it could be the brutallity they used in the wars of the north that makes some people remind them of nazi germany, but in truth its more similar to Rome more than anything else.


and yes they are more sophisticated than the north. in industry and economically. the kings of the north were worried that they would be overtaken economically with their superior products. legally, they have courts and lawyers, etc etc. there system is akin to renaissance or better compared to the feudalistic one of the north. furthermore the ideal of liberty and democracy is fairly spread out in nilfgaard, while in the north its only starting. so in truth nilfgaard is just roughly at the point of prerevolution france, hell if im not mistaken there was a shorth quote in the books that said that ehmyrs sucessor established a constitutional monarchy.

[Glaroug]

Quote

May be it is because as a contractor, I spent three years guarding one of the Russian embassies on the Middle East, so I simply do not feel like killing ambassadors even in the game.

That's good enough for me. It certainly makes my thoughts feel wimpy

Anyway, the chop suey beneath Loc Muinne that used to answer to Cynthia is the best way to sum up my feelings for Nilfgaard.

[Wichat]

FoggyFishburne said:

That'd be an interesting twist. All Kingdoms of the North must unite with Nilfgaard in order to stand a chance against the spectral invasion. Will they stand together or fall alone. ›››

In my IMO, the Emhyr I know could perfectly negotiated with The Wild Hunt before doing with Northen Kingdoms. So, no, I cannot see this option coherent with the political map of TW's world....

[Aver]

I just hope that big invasion of interdimensional elves that unites mankind won't be a part of plot. Greater, common enemy that unites mankind is so cliche that I can't stand it. I hope that Wild Hunt plot will be kept on personal level as it was in the books.

[guipit]

I wonder what Emhyr's goals why did he want to make a child with Ciri. Why does he want to take over the North so badly? Why did he make the population of Dol Blathanna sterile?

and I always though the ending would be related to Ithlinnes Prophecy.

[Wichat]

Aver said:

I just hope that big invasion of interdimensional elves that unites mankind won't be a part of plot. Greater, common enemy that unites mankind is so cliche that I can't stand it. I hope that Wild Hunt plot will be kept on personal level as it was in the books. ›››

i agree, before to invader anything the Son of the Elven Blood must be born, and before that he's must be conceived. Another alternative is that all this last 6 years long Ciri was mother (awful option />/>/> because Ciri 'd lose all her importance ) and Geralt has to protect them (/>/>/> how could be Ciri forced to be mother and keep his son from those who rape her?) Oh, sorry, I'm rambling />/>/>

Back to the begining: Geralt escapes from Wild Hunt and arrives to Kaer Morhen. Geralt exchanges his soul (or life) by Yen's soul (or life) (I'm not clear about this point: when TWH kidnnaped her both, Geralt and Yen, were alive or dead in the limbo? If they were dead how could Geralt return to life to persue them and then meet Letho?). Geralt becomes a Rider of TWH (have he killed innocents while? could be that the trigger of his amnesia? ) and finally find the way to escape from them. So TWH must be very angry with him.

From now on we need to know what happens after this odyssey, so yes, I hope that Wild Hunt plot will be kept on personal level, too.

Ouch! I've noticed that this post if out of topic..../>/>/> ehem... />/>/>

[cmdr_silverbolt]

guipit said:

I wonder what Emhyr's goals why did he want to make a child with Ciri. Why does he want to take over the North so badly? Why did he make the population of Dol Blathanna sterile?

and I always though the ending would be related to Ithlinnes Prophecy. ›››

He wants to have a child with Ciri because it is foretold that her child will rule the world; the prophecy you mentioned states the world will die and be reborn by her blood. He wanted to take over the North because it is foretold that he himself will rule half the world. He might have made the elves sterile for population control, but I think that the elves may have taken on voluntary sterilization because they realize that it's the end of their time.