[AhmadMetallic]

So we're reading all these Witcher 3 previews and any seasoned gamer and especially PC players can detect the mentality changes of developers from just a few words. We've been doing this for years and we know what even the SMALLEST WORDS mean and what they reflect of the developer's goals and mentality.

Now I'm not bashing CDPR, they are so godly that even if they create Skyrim 2.0 it's gonna be 10 times better than any RPG because CDPR are simply INCAPABLE of making bad games, they fucking rock.

However, they are clearly streamlining the franchise with Witcher 3, and regardless of whether this is good or bad, my question is, WHY didn't they do it with Witcher 2?!!

They could have easily added fast travel, "easier" faster combat, hand-holding tutorial, win button that highlights monster tracks, jumping etc... in Witcher 2, the game's appeal was graphics and they could've easily streamlined the experience to make more money and become popular. They could've easily made it multiplatform to attract those console kids.

But they didn't. They had the chance to make the most mainstream and goodlooking multiplatform RPG but they decided to remain true to the PC platform, true to the first game, provide a difficult experience, no map marker spam, no hand holding, tough combat, limited chances of potion drinking, and all kinds of difficulties and vagueness that made CONQUERING the game a massive achievement.

So if they willingly passed on the chance to become mainstream with Witcher 2, why do it now with 3? Why all this talk of easier easier easier stuff? It just doesn't make sense. Either they wanna keep it hard and be content with 1-2 million sales, or they wanna make it accessible and get 5 million sales. They proved with Witcher 2 that they value quality over popularity, so what the f*** is going on now?!

[Nex3t]

what´s the problem? this is the way it's gonna be, i think most of the so called "hardcore" gamers are thinking that just because CDP wants to make a more friendly game, they are betraying some faith you put in them... they aren't, they are doing what they do best: a videogame; if the final result it is not as "hardcore" as the first witcher, what's the problem? it's gonna be a good game.
Edit: i know that every time we hear "we want to get to a wider audience" the result, most of the times, is a major disappointing for we pc gamers, but, hell, CDP has been such a great company this far, can't we get them a little faith? they have treated us very well as costumers (no DRM, free dlc's) and this far every one say "hoo, this is how it has to be done, f**ck u bioware" but now we cant give them a little, just a little faith?

[Tuco Benedicto]

I'm not sure there is a single feature that sounds "streamlined" of what we read so far about TW3.
If anything, the opposite. Seems to me they are finally going to make the game a bit less dumb and straight forward and a bit more complex and deep.

Maybe with the only exception of that annoying unlimited fast travel, which I'm very strongly against.

[Geralt_of_bsas]

I dont see this easier easier you say yet.

fast travel doesnt make the game easier in a significant way, it makes it take less time, and they can put random monster encounters in the middle if they want.

faster combat is actually harder with less time to react.

tutorial should be there to simply teach and its also done through quests so it'll be enjoyable even if you know how to play.

win button that hilights monster tracks is also called Medallion from TW2, not to mention we dont know exactly the kind of things we'll need to solve so its all contextual.

jumping and climbing can actually make the game harder if used properly cause it will force you to think in a vertical way when trying to find secrets or locations

[vivaxardas]

I don't know why people consider TW1-2 being hardcore. They are story-heavy games, and it is exactly why I like them, but I did not notice anything especially hardcore in gameplay. TW3 will be an open-world PRG, so it will be different from TW1-2. On a large map fast travel may be necessary in order not to make gamers loose their minds traversing the same terrain for 10 minutes again and again. I do not really see any move into mainstream direction, because I have no idea what this mainstream really is. I trust CDPR will make a great game with great characters, great story, with a multitude of radically different outcomes dependent on our choices, and with a beautiful world. Call it whatever you want - hardcore or mainstream, I do not really care.

[Kallelinski]

/> I don't really get why today is such a negative one, i'm quite happy about that preview.

Nothing changed today, CDPR didn't change, CDPR is still doing the same as before and nothings hints to something else.

Where is the so called "trust" from the so called fans nowadays? I thought CDPR fans are trusting them, now everyone doubts them, really weird.

The "new" detective mode sounds exactly like the medallion, you will push a button, everything turns grey and you will see hotspots just like drinking a cat potion, so what's the deal? You did the same already in TW2, "you have to follow the blood stain" activating the medallion to see the blood stain, "ah, there it is.".

They mentioned now countless times that they always wanted to make an open world game, but they couldn't because the engine and their lack of experiance didn't allow it, now they have the engine, the experience and confidence to make one.

The combat will not be easier, it is easier to control it that doesn't mean you will "press a to win", actually it sounds more complicated as before for me. Each button will trigger now an strike, so now you have to make combos by pushing different buttons in certain pattern. In Witcher 2 you just pressed the left mouse button until the enemy was dead. It sounds more like Demon's/Dark Souls now and that are not really "easy" games.

Since when is "mainstream" a bad thing?
The vote on Gameinformer showed that even though TW2 was an success, many, MANY players still don't want to play TW3 or any Witcher part at all.

And i don't get why you are blaming now the consoles, they are even making a separate UI for the PC Version, a whole new UI just for the PC.

Also TW3 will use heavily DX11, i don't know if the PS4 or the Nextbox support something like that, but it sounds to me that they are prefering the PC version, again. They even said that they want to push our FUTURE pc hardware to their limits.

[Ward Dragon]

TW2 did streamline things compared to TW1. Alchemy was simplified, there were smaller locations, fewer main characters, fewer side quests, and more focus on the main plot. Even the addition of crafting was handled in a relatively simple way.

I think TW2 made the right choices for the story it wanted to tell. However everything I've heard about TW3 sounds like TW3 will be much more complex. It sounds like the crafting system will be handled in more detail, there will be a lot more side quests, monster hunting sounds much improved, and the locations will apparently be much larger with points of interest always nearby (so it's not larger due to boring empty space like a lot of open-world games).

I think fast-travel is a necessity for such a large map (whereas TW2's maps were small enough that it didn't make much difference to walk back and forth). The detective mode sounds like a combination of the TW2 cat potion and medallion where it hilights interactive objects orange. The combat sounds like it will require more skill, knowing which tactics to use against each type of monster. And being able to jump means Geralt hopefully won't get stuck on scenery or invisible walls anymore, plus it opens up a lot of possibilities for realistic 3D locations.

[Zanderat]

Best analogy I can think (as the apparently lone TES fan here) is Daggerfall->Morrowind->Oblivion. Need I say more?

[Tuco Benedicto]

Zanderat said:

Best analogy I can think (as the apparently lone TES fan here) is Daggerfall->Morrowind->Oblivion. Need I say more? ›››

Did you say anything at all?
Because in that case I'm clearly failing to see how this analogy should apply to The Witcher, especially with the implied assumption that TW3 should be the Oblivion of this saga, when it sounds pretty much the opposite.

[Zanderat]

I hope that you correct. But I do see a lot of similarities to what Bethie was saying prior to OB's release and CDPR are saying about TW3. Unfortunately there is precedent of formerly great franchises being fucked up in the quest to reach a larger audience. Now having said that, I do trust CDPR to deliver the goods. But if we as fans don't say anything now, after the game is released it is too late.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Ward Dragon said:

TW2 did streamline things compared to TW1. Alchemy was simplified, there were smaller locations, fewer main characters, fewer side quests, and more focus on the main plot. ›››

Fewer, but better.
Especially when it comes to characters, TW1 doesn't hold a candle compared to TW2.


In any case, there's imo a difference between streamlining and dumbing down. The former is not always bad, in fact I'm all for it some things are overrated and are just a waste of time. Simplifying them or removing them would make for a better experience (like cheap junk in inventory). I'm all for fast travel as it falls in line with streamlining, and those who don't like it have other means of travel. It's dumbing down that we should worry about, in terms of gameplay (TW2 improved over TW1 and made it less simple), or story (TW2 is miles ahead in terms of writing quality).

[Ward Dragon]

KnightofPhoenix said:

In any case, there's imo a difference between streamlining and dumbing down. ›››

Right I tried to explain that streamlining was a good choice for how TW2 wanted to focus on the main plot. I just don't think that TW3 will be streamlined compared to TW2 because it sounds like they are making everything more complicated (although hopefully in a good way)

[cmdr_silverbolt]

It's their prerogative to try new things. I guess they think that since they have built a "solid fan base", they are going to have 2 million sales for sure, so that's why it seems like they are focusing more on attracting new players.

[AhmadMetallic]

Interesting positive perspective you guys have. I lost that perspective after my 100th favorite game got royally screwed over.
I'm not even cynical or pessimistic, the amount of games that lose everything that defined them and made them special in order to appeal to the Xbox audience is staggering.

I hope this is the good, evolutionary type of streamlining being applied to Witcher 3 that enhanced the experience tenfold, but something tells me it will not be satisfactory for anyone who enjoyed being challenged to death in W1 and 2.

[Ward Dragon]

AhmadMetallic said:

I hope this is the good, evolutionary type of streamlining being applied to Witcher 3 that enhanced the experience tenfold, but something tells me it will not be satisfactory for anyone who enjoyed being challenged to death in W1 and 2. ›››

Challenging isn't really the word I'd choose for TW1-2. For me, I think I'd rather describe them as engaging. Once I learned the game mechanics for each game I could play it on the hardest difficulty without too much trouble aside from a few specific battles which required more preparation than usual.

I think both games had a good level of difficulty where I had to pay attention and stay involved in what I was doing, but on the other hand it wasn't unreasonably difficult like some other games I've played.

I hate it when a game tries to increase difficulty or game length by using cheap tricks where it feels like I need to rely more on luck than skill, or I have to repeat large segments of gameplay if I die, or a boss battle takes an hour with no way to save mid-fight, or anything along those lines.

TW1-2 pretty much avoided all of those aggravations and presented a fair level of difficulty instead where the rules make sense and if I die I feel like it's my own fault for not being more careful. I feel like I learn from my mistakes and I can develop new strategies if what I originally tried wasn't working.

I think this is what TW3 is going for as well I don't think the goal is the make the game soul-shatteringly difficult or anything like that since they didn't do that in the first two games either. Rather I think they want the game to be engaging and keep our attention from start to finish, which requires a fair difficulty curve along with a lot of variety in what we do during the game.

I think that's what all of the new gameplay features are intended to do, to give us more interesting things to experiment with so that we have a good reason to spend more time in the world without it getting repetitive. Most of the new features are either genuinely new to the series (like the horseback riding or Geralt being able to jump and swim), or are modified versions of things we had before which sound like they are a little more complex (such as the crafting or performing monster investigations by examining their victims).

And considering the claim that there are 50 hours of main story quests and 50 hours of hand-crafted side quests, plus 36 possible states for the world to be in based upon our choices and three different epilogues we could get, I'm sure the story will be very complex as well.

Everything about this so far seems like they want to take what they did in TW1-2 and expand upon it

[NotUS]

The Medallion in the Witcher 2 didn't do all that much > Lets enhance that feature and implement it as a key game mechanic

Witcher 2 Geralt cant climb or jump > Lets give him that ability in the next game

Witcher 2 Geralt cant ride a horse > Let's add horses and possibly mounted combat

Witcher 2 maps are restrictive and you can't travel back and forth > Let's increase the size and open up the world to the player allowing full freedom to travel back and forth and explore the world.

Witcher 2 had rude people who slammed doors in your face > Lets remove the loading time so that never happens again

Wither 2 had QTE combat > let's ditch QTE altogether and have real time improved combat

Witcher 2 had minimal weather effects > Lets make weather an integral part of the game which affects quests etc and volumetric clouds

Witcher 2 loaded each map at the completion of the act > Witcher 3, you can walk, ride or sail to the next location

Witcher 2 you could hack slash at limited monsters > Witcher 3, lets increase the monsters, make the battles rewarding and implement enhanced combat mechanics to defeat them

Witcher 2 epilogue was short and had little variation > Lets implement 3 completely different epilogues of an hour each depending on your play style and choices

Witcher 2 main storyline wasn't long enough > let's increase it to 50 hours

Witcher 2 had minimal side quests > let's give the player 50 hours of hand crafted quests

Witcher 2 dropped you into the story without proper introduction > lets implement an quick ingame tutorial feature that the player will not notice

Maybe its just me, but I certainly don't see this as streamlining, more like let's take a great game and make it even better.

[Geksi]

^^
This.
What NotUS said.
They are expanding it. When i saw the first info for ME2 and DA2 before they even showed gameplay i realized both games are going to get streamlined to hell and i was right. Nothing so far i have read for Witcher 3 indicates any kind of streamlining.

I still have the same faith in CDPR i had since the first Witcher. The only thing that bothered me is the new VATS system and your "decisions won't effect the world but only characters".
We can't say anything about the VATS system since Reds didn't even finished this mechanic yet and i am pretty sure it won't be just "awesome button" to insta kill an enemy or monster.

As for "decisions having an impact on the world around you", i rather see developers being honest and saying that we shouldn't expect so much change in the story, rather then saying that every important decision will matter like Bioware did and we got slapped in the face for believing them. Besides all this info is early and can still change.

[Ward Dragon]

Geksi said:

As for "decisions having an impact on the world around you", i rather see developers being honest and saying that we shouldn't expect so much change in the story, rather then saying that every important decision will matter like Bioware did and we got slapped in the face for believing them. Besides all this info is early and can still change. ›››

I'm getting confused with all of these different translations of different articles so it's probably best to wait for an official announcement from CDPR. Having said that, it sounds like our choices do affect the course of the war with Nilfgaard among other things, including how certain characters react to us. It's just that Geralt is in new locations that weren't in the first two games, and the Yennefer/Wild Hunt backstory didn't depend on our choices to begin with, so the main plot won't change much based on our imported saves.

[AhmadMetallic]

NotUS said:

The Medallion in the Witcher 2 didn't do all that much > Lets enhance that feature and implement it as a key game mechanic

Witcher 2 Geralt cant climb or jump > Lets give him that ability in the next game

Witcher 2 Geralt cant ride a horse > Let's add horses and possibly mounted combat

Witcher 2 maps are restrictive and you can't travel back and forth > Let's increase the size and open up the world to the player allowing full freedom to travel back and forth and explore the world.

Witcher 2 had rude people who slammed doors in your face > Lets remove the loading time so that never happens again

Wither 2 had QTE combat > let's ditch QTE altogether and have real time improved combat

Witcher 2 had minimal weather effects > Lets make weather an integral part of the game which affects quests etc and volumetric clouds

Witcher 2 loaded each map at the completion of the act > Witcher 3, you can walk, ride or sail to the next location

Witcher 2 you could hack slash at limited monsters > Witcher 3, lets increase the monsters, make the battles rewarding and implement enhanced combat mechanics to defeat them

Witcher 2 epilogue was short and had little variation > Lets implement 3 completely different epilogues of an hour each depending on your play style and choices

Witcher 2 main storyline wasn't long enough > let's increase it to 50 hours

Witcher 2 had minimal side quests > let's give the player 50 hours of hand crafted quests

Witcher 2 dropped you into the story without proper introduction > lets implement an quick ingame tutorial feature that the player will not notice

Maybe its just me, but I certainly don't see this as streamlining, more like let's take a great game and make it even better. ›››

You just won my heart, white-haired one.

[Ancient76]

After so many disappointments (Diablo 3, Skyrim, Crysis 3, and even the Witcher 2 is not what i expected to be) i'm not going to hype anything, including The Witcher 3. Lets see.

I don't expect nothing from any developer anymore.

Btw, why did they decide to include volumetric clouds? High resolution sky texture will always look better.