[Costin Moroianu]

The Elder King said:

Read it, great analysis. I'd have never guessed that BO2 would have such an interesting and well-developed character.
I read your "Politic of TW2", and you top 10 antagonist list so far, and I'd say I really enjoy your blogs. ›››

No one did. No one thought that Call of Duty could produce a story that was such high quality, which touched upon the very core of the problems facing the world today. The destructive policies of the US, poverty, the wealth gap between rich and poor, the usage of drones as they become the main arm of the US military, the rise of social media and it's importance in politics, anti-americans, the 1% vs the 99%. All of this is encompassed by Menedez.

To Knight he's his 9th best Antagonist, to me he's number 3 for how he deeply he touched me. Here was a man who had lost everything he had ever loved due to the poor imperialistic politics of the USA, who at first sought mere revenge and yet realized that billions had shared his suffering, men and women, children and elderly. People who had lost everything for a destructive global power that did not care even for it's own people and he sought not only to gain revenge but also to save them, to tell them that there is still hope in a world where so many have accepted the fate they are given, unable to see any glimmer of it in the clouded sky.

In this Menedez is not a mere antangonist, but a hero of the highest degree. A man who gave up everything for the world. As Salazar puts it: After this it will better, for all of us.

[Bloth]

I think it's wrong to just target America however, it's like us Brits calling them warmongers when anybody reading our history will notice a few conflicts, one of which lasted a hundred and twenty years or so. It's the blatant greed, wastefulness and religion of celebrity that blights fairly much all of the first world. Got to admit when nurses, firemen and squaddies are paid a pittance, while singers and footballers are given obscene amounts of money, there seems to be a massive disparity in the world.

For those self same overpaid warblers and ball kick about-ers to then lecture the common working man on charity, when they're the bloated symbols of over consumption that everybody wants to aspire to, is doubly sickening. The world seems to be a bit mad, and maybe needs one sane man such as Menendez to slap it about the face, and bring a little clarity.

Anyway both this and the previous article about the choices in the game are very good.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Blothulfur said:

The world seems to be a bit mad, and maybe needs one sane man such as Menendez to slap it about the face, and bring a little clarity. ›››

That's the thing though. Menendez is not sane.

I don't exalt him as much as Costin does. Raul is mentally ill at best, insane at worst. Sadistic enough to inflict horrible pain to a child just so that someone else can share his pain.
And the reason why I do not consider him a hero, is because all he is doing is igniting a revolution. Granted, he did weaken the US, potentially pitted the 2 superpowers against each other, and gave a symbol that billions of people would follow.

But what is the alternative? Who will lead this revolution? Who will make sure it will not spin out of control like 99% of revolutions do? Who will keep the mob in line? Who will build this new system and end the revolution? Menendez didn't think of any of that.

The world might become better after Menendez' global uprising. It might also become even worse, and chances are if it's left up to the people, it will be. That's why I do not consider him heroic.

But he certainly saw himself as a hero, pretty much like Odysseus (well Tennison's interpretation of the man at least). And he is genuine. But I don't find him that great or inspiring.

[Bloth]

I was being a little ironic with contrasting the sanity/insanity thing, switching perceptions kind of thing, but I just cannot see how western society can break out of the current rut it's digging itself into without some kind of wake up call.

In general I would agree with you Knight, and argue that it's usually a progressive moderate (with a clear agenda and few scruples) who gets things done in the long term, but I get a little disheartened when seeing vapid celebrities spouting bullshit on the latest fashionable cause, or the desperate scramble to achieve the freakish half life of a reality television star.

It's hard not to think that what is needed is an enforced diametric shift to perceptions.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Oh I definitely agree that a slap in the face is required. A massive wake up call for the world to see what an irrational and short sighted system we've created.

But it should be a wake up call that incites the cool headed and passionate, not one that fuels anger and hatred of the masses, emotions that rarely if ever produce anything that can last.

A Menendez might be a necessary wake up call if we're that cynical about the world, but the title of hero should be given to the people who make something out of the mess he's created.

[Costin Moroianu]

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I think it's wrong to just target America however, it's like us Brits calling them warmongers when anybody reading our history will notice a few conflicts, one of which lasted a hundred and twenty years or so.

To clarify it's about the American governement which has continued the policies set by Truman since the end of world war which I personally hold responsible for their destructive policies not only on other countries but on their own. I don't much care about the British since their days of imperialism have long passed.

Knight: Absolutely. I wouldn't deny he is mentally ill, in fact I believe even Menedez realizes this which is why he takes his own life if the virus is out there and he is spared. I think he realizes that his path has all been about his single minded goal to destroy the US Hegemony on the world and in that he has succeeded and he leaves the world to it's own devices since he doesn't think himself able to lead to it and I don't think he is either.

As for the World Revolution. To be honest it depends on how it happens. You know my views on revolutions and how I think most end in failure, but that's because so many of them are violent revolutions and the moment you get people dying or even worse in a civil war for so called "freedom" or "better life" it's the moment things get fucked up. Non-violent revolutions however don't necessarily need a great leader to improve the lives of people. Poland is a prime example of this ( and yes I know there was violence even there but it cannot compare to what happened in Romania for instance or what happened in Egypt, Libya, Tunisia and Syria ).

However with the revolution I don't think it will affect the entire world in the same way. The US will explode in civil war and other countries will as well, but Europe and the SDC? I can't imagine they will have violent uprisings, some Europeans states might have it but not that many.

What I do however think is that a lot of governements will come under great pressure to make changes and especially in Europe they will. The SDC may or may not do so.

So what I imagine will happen is that the US will lose it's status as a super power, the SDC will be significantly weaker as a result of what happened in the game, especially if Strike Force missions are completed, and Europe will come out on top.

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A Menendez might be a necessary wake up call if we're that cynical about the world.

I hope and pray that we never need a man like him for the world to wake up.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Yea, but that's probably not what he had in mind, if it even turns out this way. I am pretty sure Menendez would hate the EU as much as the US and China. And I very much doubt the EU would do much to fix world wealth disparity.

But yes something positive may come out of his actions as a side effect (and I'll not give him credit for that). But considering his actions, I think someone like him can only really inspire violent revolution on such a scale and not peaceful ones (I don't even think he believes in that). Esp if he dies, which is his aim. He wants people enraged. And since apparently 2 billion people are Cordis Die fanatics, aka violent revolutionaries. Well, he might have killed any hope for a peaceful groups to have nearly as much weight as Cordis Die.

He's not the figurehead and positive role model he thinks he is.

[Costin Moroianu]

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I am pretty sure Menendez would hate the EU as much as the US and China

I am not entirely certain about that to be honest. I never got the vibe he really hated China, certainly he used the drones to give a message to the Chinese but his rhetoric in the games is mostly aimed the US though obviously world poverty and wealth disparity is also something one can easily blame on China, the EU, Russia and so on and I certainly think Menedez also holds them accountable.

He is ultimately a man driven by his deep seated ( and rightly so considering what he went through ) hatred of the US. While he may not like the EU or China that much I very much doubt he hates anywhere close to as much as he hates the US.

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I think someone like him can only really inspire violent revolution on such a scale and not peaceful ones (I don't even think he believes in that). Esp if he dies, which is his aim. He wants people enraged.

Yet we only see a bloody revolution in the US, and his assassination video? Certainly aimed at enraging the american Cordis Die more then others around the world and obviously aimed at enraging people against the US.

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And since apparently 2 billion people are Cordis Die fanatics, aka violent revolutionaries. Well, he might have killed any hope for a peaceful groups to have nearly as much weight as Cordis Die.

2 billion followers...on twitter. I do not think that translates into 2 billion hardcore fanatics. Certainly they would be there but I think you can expect them to count at most a few hundred million.

Which I know isn't a meager number but in general revolutions don't have that many people from the overall population. Most had less then 1%, a few had 1% or more. Iran had 10%.

[KnightofPhoenix]

ISI Leader: The city crumbles around us, but the government pretends like everything is under control.

Menendez: They care nothing for the suffering of their people. Neither do the Americans, or the Chinese.

ISI Leader: They care. They care for their own interest, nothing more.

Menendez: Believe me, my friend... Your help will ensure the complacency of the Imperialists comes to an end.

Yea he hates China as much, or holds it as equally imperialistic. There's no reason for him to think differently of the EU who also participates in neo-imperialism.
And even if he does not hate them as much, I very much doubt he wants either of them to take the lead after he's through with the US.


His assassination video must have been shown to the whole world and not just American Cordis Die, what would be the point? It's a global revolution he wants, and he has 2 billion followers across the globe to see it. If American Cordis Die were enraged, chances are everyone else was too.

As for the number of followers. Obviously I didn't mean 2 billion would take the streets. But it's 2 billion people who are pro-violent revolution and if they were to ever mobilize, they would not do so in a peaceful revolution. And any organization will have a lot of work to do to compete with the Cordis Die social media Juggernaut.

[Costin Moroianu]

Well look at it from this perspective. He supports Zhao who in turn is working to get Iran, India and Russia into the SDC, which would make the SDC the largest superpower that the US could not match. Furthermore he does not work at all to weaken the SDC military which he does for the United States.

Menedez is many things but he's not an idiot, shortsighted maybe but not an idiot. He has to know that he is going to make the SDC the superpower if he wins, especially if Zhao is successful.

Unless however he is somehow counting on David stopping Zhao, considering his whole "suffer with me" part it might be a viable scenario and if David actually does then the SDC is weakened and the EU comes on top, especially since it would not suffer the same major revolution that the US would and potentially China.

With regards to followers, certainly it was broadcast to the entire world and yet his main foes in terms of rhetoric and actions has always been the US.


EDIT: Then again he did strike against the G20 summit in LA.

[KnightofPhoenix]

He wants the SDC and NATO to collide. If anything, that makes him want all major powers to finish themselves off fighting a costly cold war, or a genuine war.

As for his main target audience. That's not true, there's no evidence that he was primarily interested in Americans. His message was global. If you mean that the US was the primary enemy, sure. That does not mean he is going to approve the EU or China (whose economy he fucked).

And striking at the G20 summit means he wants to knock out all major powers. Because in his mind, they are all imperialistic. And he's right.

[Costin Moroianu]

In which case I'm wrong.

But then there's one last thing. He might be looking to have Cordis Die topple all world governements and take over the world, and yes they are the violent ones but not all violent revolutions fail, especially those where is just one group behind it which is really where the problem with the failures in Egypt, Tunisia and so are in that we have multiple groups all vying for power.

Obviously Cordis Die has more leaders then just Menendez. He is the public voice, the martyr, the charismatic one but there are obviously those beneath him since otherwise who would have organized the revolution if he dies?

I think that Black Ops 2 made a mistake in not showing us these leaders though.

[KnightofPhoenix]

We don't actually know if an American revolution happens. What we know is that there is a massive uprising that burns the White House. That's not necessarily a revolution.

I'm sure all Cordis Die militias have their own cell leaders. But it's only cells. At best they will be able to organize on a local level. Unless another leader as charismatic as Menendez emerges to be able to coordinate all of them.

But as it stands, Cordis Die is not an organization. It's like Al Qaeda, in the sense that it's a name, with cells affiliated with it and its ideals. Not an actual hierarchy. Menendez's actual army is his own private one, which is separate from Cordis Die (and apparently made up of Cubans)

[Costin Moroianu]

Oh how I wish they would have explored that further, because really it's just speculation on both our ends right now.

Hopefully Black Ops 3 does so, I really do hope for it, because it would be so exciting to see that explored further.

Anyway, with more speculation here, I don't necessarily think a world leader is necessary as long as Cordis Die cells don't start fighting each other, which I guess they might but they might just very well coordinate with each other without a leader.

In my mind no one leader can manage the entire world, several leaders working together makes more sense to me. Still it wouldn't be too far fetched to think Menedez thought about this, especially in your preferred ending.

I still consider him a hero though but I understand why you wouldn't since you've always preferred moderation.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Yea I hope Black Ops 3 explores the aftermath of what happened, though it might be difficult considering multiple endings, and I'm pretty sure if they are going to canonize one, it's going to be the "perfect ending."

Anyhoo, those who watched Dark Knight Rises (one of the writers for Black Ops 2 also worked in writing that movie), and James Bond: SkyFall, can see that Menendez is almost a Bane / Raul Silva hybrid.

[Costin Moroianu]

Even then it's not like Cordis Die would go disappear, it's not like the tension between China and the US would vanish and Menendez still has something up his sleeve I bet ( notice how he laughs after bashing his head against the TV in rage ).

[KnightofPhoenix]

I think it's his insanity tbh.

Oh and another thing I forgot. If he's alive, his celerium worm targets all electric grids, power stations, water distribution across the entire world. That kinda (definitely) means he wants to fuck up every single major power, and every single state in the world.

[Costin Moroianu]

I think it's either going to be that ending or the Menendez dead ending that they are going to make canon. They don't have to pick the perfect ending though they might.

Of course it would be epic if Activision gave Treyarch the resources to implement variation in the next game depending on your choices and Activison has a lot of money to spend on CoD.

[Bloth]

Shame hearing that there won't be another article for a while Knight, one of the high points of the net is reading your well researched and theorised dissections of characters, entirely understandable though.

It's a pity that you can't get into Torment, because it features one of the most machiavellian examples of a chessmaster i've ever seen, in the person of the "practical" incarnation. Waging a personal war against his condition, this incarnation sets in place plans, manipulates and prepares so exhaustively that you're left with the impression he's as much a factor in your final victory as yourself. His stone blind neutrality is somewhat monstrous, but when facing living shadow and an immortal enemy, his methods become a little more understandable if not justified.

Whether he would be judged as an antagonist however, that i'm not sure of.