[KnightofPhoenix]

I think Sovereign knew of the Conduit before. What he didn't know was its location, and he needed Saren to find out and use it.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin Moroianu said:

Anyway Knight is Loghain still in your top 3 or have you moved him? ( And don't shout at me for asking this because you have stated yourself on these forums what your top 3 are ). ›››

WHAT THE FUCK COSTIN!!

There has been some minor alterations in my original list.

[Costin Moroianu]

Ah I see.

I have to play AC3 I think just to see what Haytham is all about.

[KnightofPhoenix]

I think you'll love him.

[Costin Moroianu]

I think I'd love playing AS him, that's why I'd be interested since I personally agree with the Templars in their philosophy rather then the Assassins ( though the notion that Stalin, Hitler, Churchill and Roosevelt were templars gets a big FU from you ).

[grregg]

So in no particular order...

I actually liked the way Saren was written. That is I liked the character and his dialogue, etc. In my view he was hurt by the plot, but BioWare plots are usually nothing to write home about.

As for the Saren/Sovereign plan, two ways of looking at it make at least a bit of sense to me.

The one Costin proposed, with Sovereign trying all kinds of things over millenia and finally succeeding with a rather improbable plan. Again keep in mind that resurrecting two extinct species, finding several ancient beacons and finally relying on a Prothean prototype of a mass relay is a shaky idea.

Another one is that Sovereign/Saren simply set out to find the beacons, which by itself sounds like a tough, but perhaps not impossible job and didn't realize how troublesome the whole thing will prove. So maybe they started with just "let's find the beacons" and then were solving the other problems as they appeared.

Both of the above strike me as the "one in a million chance comes true nine times out of ten" approaches. In other words pretty damn unlikely.

It still seems to me that a surprise Geth plus Sovereign attack with Saren using his access as a Spectre would be a much simpler and more likely to be adopted solution. Smuggling things onto the Citadel doesn't seem to be that problematic especially, I imagine, for a legendary Spectre operative.

[KnightofPhoenix]

grregg said:

It still seems to me that a surprise Geth plus Sovereign attack with Saren using his access as a Spectre would be a much simpler and more likely to be adopted solution. Smuggling things onto the Citadel doesn't seem to be that problematic especially, I imagine, for a legendary Spectre operative. ›››

Smuggling an army of Geth? To the Presidium?
You didn't explain how this alternative would work, knowing that Saren would have to take control over the citadel controls for a not so short time period.

[Werwolfchen]

Maybe i'm very slow, but i think that Vaas Montengro is a very powerful antagonist, how do you think?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Do not know him.

[IceEpicX]

So much good anagonists in games,here are my top 7.

7.Mass effect:
Saren,Illusive man was a great anagonist/charather or whatever in ME1 and ME2,I hated everything in ME3.

6..The Elder scrolls series:
The Deadras are always awesome,the gods of the tribunal are awesome,many awesome anagonist,to bad 99% of the story and writing is boring and dull,but some anagonists and story parts are worth playing the games,not to mention the great exploration and customization elements(TES:O looks really great,you should check it out,it's best to role play your charather however you want with other people in a lore,time and world you feel confotrable being in,that's why WOW is so succesful)

5.Asssassins creed:
Haytam was very proffesional,focused and a visonary,he knew what had to be done,for that reason,i kinda didn't like him,to souless for my preference.
Juno is one of my favourite angaonists of all time,master manipulator of 2012!
minor anagonists from AC1 were very interesting

4.Warcraft 3:
Arthas,Illidan,so much more,a great story,great charathers.


3.The witcher:
Phillipa Eilheart is great.Deathmold is great.Every anagonist here is great,I just don't have the time.

2.Dragon age:
Loghain was a great anagonist.Loved him,Meredith from DA2 was also great.The Arishock was also great.DA 2DLC bosses also were great,Dragon age has amazing charathers,even 2 which has almost no RPG elements and exploration,but I still think it's great story wise(not RPG and concequence wise,story wise)


1,PORTAL 1 & 2:
GLaDOS,by far one of the best anagonists of all time,if you haven't played these games,you have to try it,GLaDOS is funny,witty,clever,ironic,sarcastic...Her personality and backstory is interesting and funny,and it's just a pure joy to hear her lines

[Costin Moroianu]

KnightofPhoenix said:

Do not know him. ›››

Far Cry 3. He's an insane antagonist but he's quite compelling.

[Aver]

Vaas is the most realistic mad antagonist that I've ever seen in video games.

[Costin Moroianu]

Also Far Cry 3 is done Ubisoft Montreal.

[grregg]

KnightofPhoenix said:

Smuggling an army of Geth? To the Presidium?
You didn't explain how this alternative would work, knowing that Saren would have to take control over the citadel controls for a not so short time period. ›››

Well, it kind of depends on how many Geth Saren pushed through the relay. Was it really an army?

Considering that it didn't seem to be a very large force, smuggling it in might not have been that hard. Especially that you might be able to simply smuggle them to somewhere on the Citadel and then they can take an elevator.
Legion seems to be able to move around the Citadel in a company of a former Spectre and that was after a Geth attack. Before that, would they even be recognized as Geth? Saren was able to penetrate Noveria security and it's portrayed as being especially strict.

[Pangaea]

KnightofPhoenix said:

He most likely did not know of the Collectors. ›››

I wish WE didn't know about the Collectors. That was a butt-raped stupid idea from the get-go.

I liked your writeup though. Thought Saren was a good antagonist, and ME a pretty darn good game. Shame it all fell to pieces with the reboot of ME2, and then it just kept getting worse as we progressed the (non-existing) story. But that discussion has been had about 183 times before, so I won't repeat the same old points.

I look forward to what other people you put forward. Talking about the BG universe, I liked the BG1 antagonist better than the BG2 ones (not naming names as I know some of us are playing BG1 as we speak).

Not exactly your typical protagonist or antagonist, but TNO did some wacky bad shit too, so could probably qualify.

[KnightofPhoenix]

grregg said:

Legion seems to be able to move around the Citadel in a company of a former Spectre and that was after a Geth attack. Before that, would they even be recognized as Geth? Saren was able to penetrate Noveria security and it's portrayed as being especially strict. ›››

Yea Legon in the Citadel was stupid. But yes they knew what Geth looked like, Ash immediately recognized the Geth on Eden Prime and that's the first time they'be been out of the veil in force in 3 centuries.
And while yes Noveria was tight, it's definitely not on the level of the Citadel and Saren practically owns Binary Helix so can find a way much easier.
Also, the only way to get to the citadel controls is via the elevator in the Presidium, which would be the most secure area of the citadel considering its political importance.

But in any case, they have to make a game. A simple convenient plan wouldn't work, it has to feel epic. Like yea Letho using an ice bomb to kill a king while the ship is being broken in half is epic. But sadly assassinations in real life were as simple as poison or killing in his sleep....etc.

So I won't fault BioWare for that. At the end of the day, Sovereign's plan was sound, not idiotic, and epic.

[Bloth]

Saren never really grabbed me, didn't seem to have any real bottom to him.

[RSIK4]

• from my point of view, niko belic (GTA -IV)and geralt rivia TW1EE And TW2EE r best...

[Lurtz_Of_Orthanc]

KnightofPhoenix said:

So having finished my list of top 10 video game protagonists, it is obligatory that I do the same with antagonists. The series will work like its predecessor.

The list so far:

10. Saren Arterius (Mass Effect)


Spoilers of course.

Let me know what you think, share your list, discuss, criticize! ›››

Sees thread on frontpage

Thinks to self: "Knightofphoenix, at it again"

Clicks

Yup

[Lurtz_Of_Orthanc]

Costin Moroianu said:

I'll kill if you do that. ›››

+1. The Illusive Man is just the awesomeness of Martin Sheen's voice. Mass Effect 3 ruins everything they had built up for him in ME2, and in my mind disqualifies him for any all-time list. Still one of the best voice-acting jobs ever, though.