My Top 10 Video Game Antagonists (2/10) 13/02/13
30.01.2013 @ 17:41 #1
The list so far:
10. Saren Arterius (Mass Effect)
9. Raul Menendez (Black Ops 2)
Spoilers of course.
Let me know what you think, share your list, discuss, criticize!
30.01.2013 @ 17:55 #2
30.01.2013 @ 18:17 #4
The Illusive Man is in the top 5.
30.01.2013 @ 18:19 #6
30.01.2013 @ 18:21 #7
While I do pride myself on my BSing abilities, even I have limits. For instance I can't do that with the catalyst.
30.01.2013 @ 18:28 #9
I'll kill if you do that.
30.01.2013 @ 18:35 #10
30.01.2013 @ 18:51 #11
It is not a problem for me, when that flaw is understandable and explored. It's problematic when it becomes so blatant as a plot device and over-used.
30.01.2013 @ 18:57 #12
30.01.2013 @ 19:04 #14
Still, Saren's assumption that Reapers would honor their agreement long after he outlived his usefulness was rather naive and not really fitting his character. Reapers strike me as the quintessential "gratitude is a disease of dogs" types. Perhaps we can argue that Saren was so desperate to harm humanity that he was willing to sacrifice himself in the process, but that puts a crimp in his "I'm doing to save the organics" justification.
Unless he was indoctrinated, but that's a bit cheap.
30.01.2013 @ 19:09 #15
Costin Moroianu said:
Yes, I know. But how can one accept a plan like this, full of impossibilities piled upon other impossibilites, as a viable plan of invasion is beyond me. Either Saren was just trolling Sovereign or Sovereign is the reigning Galaxy idiot.
30.01.2013 @ 19:11 #16
The Reapers are machine. Machines have no hatred or prejudice, they would preserve what they would deem to be useful.
So Saren aimed to make organics prove their worth and usefulness.
The logic is sound, but it's based on a false premise. The Reapers are NOT machines nor do they think like machines.
And while I do not believe he was indoctrinated fully, it's very likely that Sovereign already creeped into his mind and manipulated him into believing that premise.
30.01.2013 @ 19:12 #17
Actually the plan was very sound.
Had Sovereign succeeded, which he very nearly did if it were not for Shepard, the Reapers would have been warped right at the Citadel, which would have knocked the galaxy's political center in one swift stroke.
There is nothing impossible about it, it's pretty smart.
30.01.2013 @ 19:27 #18
So they would discard him just as they discarded all the previous generations of organic helpers. What does he have that others didn't have before him?
As far as the plan goes, so imagine Sovereign and Saren sitting together after dicovering that they cannot just flip the switch and control the Citadel. So what can they do?
1. They invade straight up, relying on the element of surprise, the Geth fleet and Saren's infiltration of Citadel as a Spectre, or
2. They decide to use a 50000 year old mass relay on the Citadel. They need to discover where is the other end, which could be anywhere in the galaxy. In order to locate it, they need to find several Prothean beacons which are likely destroyed/lost/etc plus they need an actual Prothean to read them (shame all Protheans were eradicated 50000 years ago). Then they need to find another lost mass relay, and the way to do it is to recover another extinct species with the necessary knowledge.
And after jumping through all these hoops they invade using Geth fleet plus Saren's infiltration via the relay.
How was it that they didn't just laugh, and abandon it on the spot is beyond me.
30.01.2013 @ 19:33 #19
Perhaps to extract resources for them. Indoctrination, in his mind, wouldn't be an issue if he proves that organics can willingly help them and be much more efficient at it.
It's a warped logic, there is no doubt about it, that was manipulated by Sovereign. But it's not completely idiotic.
What I will say is that the details of Sovereign's manipulation are not shown. Perhaps Sovereign told him how he can organics can be useful to them if they submit.
EDIT: also I don't think Saren knew that other organics were used by the Reapers.
He most likely did not know of the Collectors.
And how do you propose he takes over the citadel controls, and defend it before other Specters or C-Sec stop him?
He needed Geth with him in the Citadel and the COnduit was the best chance to warp an army of Geth right near the presidium.
If Saren fails to open the arms, or keep them closed while Sovereign was inside, the plan would fail.
EDIT: keep in mind that Sovereign had been planning this for a long time.
The plan was enacted only after Sovereign knew that all the pieces were ready, and he knew that Saren would be the best man for the job.
30.01.2013 @ 19:38 #20
Sovereign tried to activate it even before the humans joined the Galactic Community, then he realized it failed, then he tried using the Rachni to take over the Galaxy and then that failed, then he started to use the Geth.
They had the element of surprise even with the Conduit and even then the Citadel Control would have closed the station if not for Saren.
Also what does the age of the conduit have to do with anything? The relays are millions of years old already and they work fine!
Furthermore they devised this plan based on the information found in the Prothean Beacon on Eden Prime though I suspect Sovereign already knew the Protheans had found a way to build their own relay or Saren and Sovereign decided to see what information the beacon on Eden Prime and with that information they devised a plan to infiltrate the Citadel thanks to the Conduit.
EDIT: It just dawned on me I'm defending Bioware's writing of Saren which very likely turned out to be like this due to a mistake, just like Loghain, since at the start Saren was supposed to just be after an artifact then they created the Reapers.
Anyway Knight is Loghain still in your top 3 or have you moved him? ( And don't shout at me for asking this because you have stated yourself on these forums what your top 3 are ).