[WrathAscending]

The combat system is a bit clunky, yes. It is in some ways similar to that of Skyrim with the complication of needing to be more like that ofDevil May Cry 3/4 given the style and lethality of combat in the game.

I quite liked the combat system from The Witcher, since it was easy to understand and use; coupled with alchemy and a bit of cleverness you could fight well above what Geralt's's character level implied he would be able to handle.

But I can understand the clickfest complaints about it as well.

Hopefully TW3 will move a bit more towards the Devil May Cry end of the spectrum. The major complicating factor is probably that the games are released on both consoles and PCs, so the control scheme needs to work for both; it's an issue you get to a greater or lesser extent on all multi-platform games.

[VFNNJ]

I think one of the reasons combat can be difficult is due to mobs and camera positions and targeting. I suppose I'm also pretty mediocre at this game.

Do combos actually work? Never really seen that. Do they all involve three successive hits, like quick quick strong? Any best ones? And how do you know you pulled one off?

[WrathAscending]

The combo system is not all that well-connected; even Space Marine offers more varied and predictable options. You can switch between Fast and Strong attacks, which is a good idea against certain opponents since you can cause them to recoil with a Fast hit and then deliver a large amount of damage with a Strong follow-up, but in terms of set combos it's mostly just "keep hitting the Fast attack button" or "keep hitting the Strong attack button."

Getting mobbed is an issue due to the Backstab damage multiplier, which on Dark mode and until or unless you invest in Vitality-boosting talents with a side order of Backstab damage reduction even Nekkers will one-shot you, and one of them almost inevitably spawns behind you when you approach their nests...

[Sirnaq]

In my opinion combat in tw2 was fine, what they need to fix are exploitable moves like roll and quen other than that combat is great.

[rchristie]

Quote

His moves aren't as random as you might think. With enough experience, you understand how far he'll leap, and what type of attack he'll do. The 'spinning monkey attack', as you call it, is a mid-range oblique move.

With the same range he might leap and thrust immediately, not spin. If it's not random, then it's never explained in the tutorial. Which button press triggers which attack? Also, I have had Geralt does the spin attack even though the enemy is very near. You get used to it's randomness after a while, but it will still bite you in tight situations.

Quote

That may be true, but it is easier to control the directional hits with the gamepad—and switching between enemies is faster thus making fights against groups way easier.

No it is not. Since when? Mouse is far more easier to use for targeting, hence the popularity of first person shooter in PC. Unless you have two thumbs in your right hand, you won't be able to move the camera while pressing attack buttons. With mouse this would be easy peasy. Perhaps if I remap strong and fast attack to left and right trigger it will be a better experience.

[AnDr01d]

rchristie said:

No it is not. Since when? Mouse is far more easier to use for targeting, hence the popularity of first person shooter in PC. Unless you have two thumbs in your right hand, you won't be able to move the camera while pressing attack buttons. With mouse this would be easy peasy. Perhaps if I remap strong and fast attack to left and right trigger it will be a better experience. ›››

I am not talking about targeting as in: centering your camera onto the enemy.
You don't need to do that. You just need to have Geralt attack in the direction of the enemy (whether you see the enemies from the front, their sides or even their back is irrelevant)
I mean targeting as in: making Geralt attack the poor fella
And you can do this by not only pressing any attack buttons, but using the (left) thumb-stick at the same time (on Keyboard this would translate to pressing a mouse-button and pressing WASD). When you do that Geralt attacks in the direction you pressed (with a certain type of attack depending on the direction and the distance to the next enemy).
And here the game-pad has an advantage, because it allows for 8 directions to be recognized by the game while PC can only accept 4 directions (WASD).

To sum it up: When fighting groups using the game-pad, you hardly ever change the angle of the camera (only if there are obstacles blocking your view) and rather switch between attacking different enemies by using directional hits (attack + movement input).

[Costin Moroianu]

Sirnaq said:

Edit: maybe you are confusing position of geralt with position of camera. Aim at enemy press a, you will use spinning move always when the enemy is far. Aim at enemy press w when he is far you will always jump to enemy with fast strike. s is for roll and stab and d is for short spin.

While Geralt does generally do these moves more often if you do press these keys it does not always happen. I went to Arena to test this.

Quote

In my opinion combat in tw2 was fine, what they need to fix are exploitable moves like roll and quen other than that combat is great.

Even in the situation of removing quen and rolling, an extreme situation and very unlikely, the balance problems still would remain. Humans foes would still be pathetically easy to deal with.

So no it's not fine.

[Frendh]

I am going to start with saying that I am playing the game now for the first time and I am playing on Dark mode. I am disappointed in many parts of Witcher 2 when comparing it to Witcher 1. Mostly because the only thing "Witcher" about the Witcher 2 is the story. Potion system, combat system, loot system, movement system have all been revamped.

Potion/alchemy system: Most of the points are a matter of opinion. Such as not being able to drink potions during combat or being limited on how many potions you can drink at a time. There are also some flaws(I consider flaws not a matter of opinion. Though that is my opinion >_>) such as not being able to get a quick overview of your ingredients. That is, to quickly see how much vitriol, aether etc you have. The best way in witcher 2 currently is to hit ctrl, click meditate, click alchemy then click on vitriol, aether symbols etc respectively. I'll stop here.

Combat System: I cannot think of any flaws at the moment. Though the targeting system could use some work. But I do not like the combat system at all. Witcher 1 has a casual combat system which I liked a lot. Witcher 2 is more action/button mash oriented where quick real life reflexes are very valuable. What I can say is that I think the combat system is poorly balanced. Maybe because of the npc AI? Bombs and traps make fights really easy. Even without upgrades for them. While a fully upgraded swordsman is still a pansy in melee(I know quen exists). In witcher 1 Geralt(going to refer to him as w1 Geralt) could wade into a group of monsters and if he could land some hits with group style he would make short work of the opponents. W1 Geralt could take enough of a beating for him to have a chance to trade blows with several opponents. Geralt in Witcher 2(W2 Geralt) is a real pansy. Being killed with one or two hits is common and he has to jump around all over to avoid getting hit. In many fights it feels like I am spending more time hitting dodge button than attack button.

Upgraded igni and/or bombs and traps (+footwork) seems to be by far the superior way to beat your enemy except when circumstances forces you otherwise, such as Kayran.

NPCs talks about W2 Geralt being awesome and describes how W2 Geralt takes on 20 opponents in the blink of an eye(with his sword). *cough*BS*coughcough*.

So basically, my biggest complaint is that W2 Geralt is not a badass any longer and that he is a horrible melee person. He is a pansy. It is a sequel for crying out loud, he is supposed to be BETTER than in the prequel. I would rather have seen them upping the difficulty by adding more enemies and let W2 Geralt be able to take a much larger beating before going down.

Also, grinding gives a lot less satiesfaction in Witcher 2 than in Witcher 1.

Loot system: Way too many unlootable objects close to walls or behind other placeables. And too many "invisible" loot drops. For instance when you kill rotfiends outside the Kaedweni camp the loot drops will not be seen even with the wolf medallion highlight when they are in the underbrush. Loot button is the same button as manipulate button and attack button, that is horrible. For instance an attack combo is interrupted by the loot menu popping up. The examine/manipulate triggers when you want to loot, for instance when you try to loot near the corpses corpses outside the kaedweni camp and you REALLY do NOT want to burn the corpses.

rchristie said:

You cannot plan your battle because every attack is randomized - Geralt is inconsistent. Sometimes he does X when fast attack button is pressed, at another time he does a completely different move ›››

Not quite true. There is some measure of control to the attacks. What kind of first strike you initiate with is based on angle and distance to the opponent. For instance fast style, an enemy target directly to Geralt's right side at a medium/long distance will trigger a combo where is spins in the air and lands 4-5 hits(if the enemy is close enough).When I was at the quarry the small harpies would die with one such attack so I would often use it. If you on the other hand do the same but to his left Geralt will do a slower large spin with a swing and landing 1 or maybe 2 hits(I am uncertain).

Costin Moroianu said:

I disagree on your complaint about hitting multiple foes, you can do so from the start but it's in a small radius and only for a little damage.

Technicality. Even if true, the result is still that it is useless for group combat. I am pretty sure almost all melee players think when facing for instance three opponents "How can I cut one guy down before the other two attack me?" and not "I better keep those three together so I can attack them at the same time with my small splash radius and little damage!"

[SkycladGuardian]

Frendh said:

So basically, my biggest complaint is that W2 Geralt is not a badass any longer and that he is a horrible melee person. He is a pansy. It is a sequel for crying out loud, he is supposed to be BETTER than in the prequel. I would rather have seen them upping the difficulty by adding more enemies and let W2 Geralt be able to take a much larger beating before going down. ›››

To be fair, in the novels, Geralt is a badass, because he is quicker and more agile than his opponents. He simply cuts them before they can hit him.
Surely, he is more resistant to pain (especially with potions imbibed) and may be able to take more punishment than the normal guy. However, when Geralt loses a fight in the books, he does so because he is not quick enough, and not because he is not strong enough.

I guess, the novel Geralt could be killed by a single nekker from behind if he wasn't paying attention and not being quick enough to evade it. So in a way, W2 Geralt is resembles more Geralt from the novels

[AnthonyF1227]

If you want Geralt to be a bad ass melee person do the following:

1. Focus on alchemy tree and get impregnation skill.
2. Use power mutagens on every mutagen slot available
3. Profit

The alchemy tree is OP to the max and you'll ge to see Geralt as a bad ass melee person.

[Sirnaq]

Costin Moroianu said:

While Geralt does generally do these moves more often if you do press these keys it does not always happen. I went to Arena to test this. ›››

I killed whole stage of nekkers using ONLY spinning move, nothing else. If it is random it couldn't be done. So id say that what move Geralt is using depends on you, not some random algorithm in the game.

[gab961111]

Sirnaq said:

I killed whole stage of nekkers using ONLY spinning move, nothing else. If it is random it couldn't be done. So id say that what move Geralt is using depends on you, not some random algorithm in the game. ›››

Yes , i can also do the spinning move anytime i want.

[slimgrin]

Costin Moroianu said:

While Geralt does generally do these moves more often if you do press these keys it does not always happen. I went to Arena to test this.



Even in the situation of removing quen and rolling, an extreme situation and very unlikely, the balance problems still would remain. Humans foes would still be pathetically easy to deal with.

So no it's not fine. ›››

I honestly found group encounters with monsters way easier than fighting humans. Humans mix up attacks a bit; mages teleport and have a shield, archers will switch weapons, knights will block and counter. All monsters do is mob you, and they rarely have defense.

[stephenwan]

You might want to check these out for more consistent combat.

Fighting with shield:
My link

Backstab:
My link

Expert's Guide to Parrying
My link

Fighting with no shield:
My link

[slimgrin]

stephenwan said:

You might want to check these out for more consistent combat.

Fighting with shield:
My link

Backstab:
My link

Expert's Guide to Parrying
My link

Fighting with no shield:
My link ›››

Or not. Since I don't want the game to be like Dark Souls.

[Frendh]

SkycladGuardian said:

To be fair, in the novels, Geralt is a badass, because he is quicker and more agile than his opponents. He simply cuts them before they can hit him.
Surely, he is more resistant to pain (especially with potions imbibed) and may be able to take more punishment than the normal guy. However, when Geralt loses a fight in the books, he does so because he is not quick enough, and not because he is not strong enough.

I guess, the novel Geralt could be killed by a single nekker from behind if he wasn't paying attention and not being quick enough to evade it. So in a way, W2 Geralt is resembles more Geralt from the novels /

Maybe. I consider W1 Geralt to be more like Geralt in the novels. What you probably do not take into consideration is that W1 Geralt autododges with small movements that have not been animated. Instead of diving away 2 meters like W2 Geralt, W1 Geralt merely shifts his body a little to avoid the blow.

Of course it is cooler to not get hit than to get hit. But not getting hit because you are in the other room(ie W2 super dive) is not a show of skill (takes skill from the player though to do it W2 style).

But then again I have only read a couple of small excerpts from the novels.

Also, if W2 Geralt stands still and does nothing he gets cut down in the blink of an eye. If random human/elf/dwarven opponent stands still and does nothing it will takes W2 Geralt a lot more time to cut him down than it took for himself to be killed.

Quote

If you want Geralt to be a bad ass melee person do the following:

1. Focus on alchemy tree and get impregnation skill.
2. Use power mutagens on every mutagen slot available
3. Profit

The alchemy tree is OP to the max and you'll ge to see Geralt as a bad ass melee person.

Thanks. I have been putting most of the talents in alchemy tree and I got impregnation 1+2. But I only have 2 greater vitality mutagens and no other greater ones />/>/>/>/>/. I wanted to use only greater strength ones but I doubt I will find enough to make it happen. I just got catalysis 1+2 at lvl 25, maybe something will happen.

edit: Yeah, catalysis 1+2 and gadwall + swallow makes a big difference. Now if I only can get enough greater strengths. Otherwise I guess basic power ones will have to do. I have 20+ of those.

This post has been edited by Frendh: 18.01.2013 @ 08:52

[Costin Moroianu]

slimgrin said:

Or not. Since I don't want the game to be like Dark Souls. ›››

Yeah sure let's not make a gameplay system based after the best swordfighting system in any game.

[Sirnaq]

Costin Moroianu said:

Yeah sure let's not make a gameplay system based after the best swordfighting system in any game. ›››

Yeah, right i rather play witcher 3 with kb&m than not play it at all, no thanks.

[Costin Moroianu]

Sirnaq said:

Yeah, right i rather play witcher 3 with kb&m than don't play it at all, no thanks. ›››

The notion that the Dark Souls system could never work well with a mouse and keyboard is just ridiculous. I finished the entire game with mouse and keyboard and it ran just fine with a mod ( the default game is fucking horrible with PC controls ).

[Sirnaq]

I don't think there is need to replace system that is working and is pretty good with system that was originally completely broken and after big modifications barely playable.