[KnightofPhoenix]

Here's an examination of the C&C in Black Ops 2.

Please be open minded, I know it's tempting to dismiss a CoD game. But let's give credit where credit is due and see if RPG devs can learn something form it.

[Chromie92]

I suddenly have the urge to post this on the Mass Effect forums.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Already posted it on BSN, off-topic section.

[cyberarmy]

Chromie92 said:

I suddenly have the urge to post this on the Mass Effect forums. ›››

Hehe, Tyearch going to past Beaware games if they keep up like this. 4 real main endings with other little changes in campaign. And with memorable characters.
Also fully upgradable weapons arsenal with lots of weapons and cool sci-fi tech/cold war weapons.

Edit: @KoP
OMG what have you done, massive shitstorms with Q_Q on its way
Im grabbing my popcorn and heading back to BSN

[Costin Moroianu]

I think that Black Ops 2, and where RPG devs can learn from, is how gameplay skill and decisions impact the story. Like letting a fire burn in Raul's villa will destroy evidence linking him to the CIA, something you did not mention KoP.

[FoggyFishburne]

Man, you're analysing and praising CoD but Spec Ops: The Line gets to fuck off :S

I mean I could write an entire dissertation on why that game kicks so much ass.

Haven't played the game myself. Busy playing better games. Have friends who played through it though. They said it had it its moments but overall pretty underwhelming. I don't have the will to play or pay for underwhelming games.

Still can't believe that The Line gets the shaft while CoD is being revered... Oh well.

[Chromie92]

Costin Moroianu said:

I think that Black Ops 2, and where RPG devs can learn from, is how gameplay skill and decisions impact the story. Like letting a fire burn in Raul's villa will destroy evidence linking him to the CIA, something you did not mention KoP. ›››

That does sound great. I like when a story is told or affected by gameplay like the end of Red Dead John Marston dying/living or Dead Money with the gold bars and Elijah's death.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin Moroianu said:

I think that Black Ops 2, and where RPG devs can learn from, is how gameplay skill and decisions impact the story. Like letting a fire burn in Raul's villa will destroy evidence linking him to the CIA, something you did not mention KoP. ›››

...I thought there was always a fire. Interesting I never knew that happened.
What difference does it make other than showing that he's linked with the CIA?

[KnightofPhoenix]

FoggyFishburne said:

Man, you're analysing and praising CoD but Spec Ops: The Line gets to fuck off :S

I mean I could write an entire dissertation on why that game kicks so much ass. ›››

Because I didn't play it?

Write about it if you are so adamant.

[Costin Moroianu]

KnightofPhoenix said:

...I thought there was always a fire. Interesting I never knew that happened.
What difference does it make other than showing that he's linked with the CIA? ›››

Well there is always the fire but if you move fast enough and go to the right there you will find documents linking him to the CIA. I guess a sort of backup if Mason doesn't resist the pressure in Afghanistan.

[Babli]

I dont remember any meaningful choices in Spec Ops: The Line. The worst part is that

"You had a choice, you could have stopped"

while I really could not.

[Purpleknight]

Babli said:

I dont remember any meaningful choices in Spec Ops: The Line. The worst part is that

"You had a choice, you could have stopped"

while I really could not. ›››

Well, maybe it was talking about "stop playing" which is actually a choice... Ok, stupid bad joke.

Interesting read and interesting point, KnightofPhoenix. I say interesting point because I almos always think about this kind of stuff when a game is told that it has meaningful choices. What you wrote about Black Ops II tells me that it seems the game has "accumulative choices&consequences".

I know it's really nice stuff, but I always consider how it would be this kind of thing in a regular RPG (when I say regular RPG I mean that it has lots of gameplay hours, long story, secondary quests, lot to do, tons of characters, at least for a 40 hours playthrough). If a game developer wants to genuinely integrate the "accumulative c&c" feature in an RPG of this scale, I think it would be a VERY big work of variables depending of what is the story about, who is (or can be) involved in every situation, how many places are there (or are left) and etc.

I'm not saying that accumulative c&c in bigger games is an utopia, but that it would mean spending a lot of more resources if you want to do it well, and not in a cheap way like only end-of-chapter choices matter and the rest are isolated consequences (as you named it in the article XD). Or maybe I'm just blind and there is indeed an easy way to implement this feature, who knows. Not that I'm a pro in game developing XD

[guipit]

I do like how BLOPS is using C&C it'll probably make other games do it as well

I like cumulative C&C but it isn't that big a deal to me, like Thorton telling you what you did throughout the game is cool but I was more excited with the befriending an organization will help you on the final mission,Consequences that affect in game things rather than the ending.

I'd prefer consequences to be in the middle rather than the end since it has more meaning and content like TW2. There should be a combination of both I think. What I really want is unpredictable C&C like W1 only taken to a much larger scale where even the choice of buying an upgrade can impact the story.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Purpleknight said:

I know it's really nice stuff, but I always consider how it would be this kind of thing in a regular RPG (when I say regular RPG I mean that it has lots of gameplay hours, long story, secondary quests, lot to do, tons of characters, at least for a 40 hours playthrough). If a game developer wants to genuinely integrate the "accumulative c&c" feature in an RPG of this scale, I think it would be a VERY big work of variables depending of what is the story about, who is (or can be) involved in every situation, how many places are there (or are left) and etc. ›››

I point you to Alpha Protocol my friend.
Granted it's not that long, but still.

[slimgrin]

guipit said:

I do like how BLOPS is using C&C it'll probably make other games do it as well
›››

I would argue TW2, or RPG's in general, are what's causing action games to adopt C&C. Dishonored in another recent example.

[Pangaea]

It's an FPS. It's almost as tempting to play as pulling a wisdom tooth with dynamite.

[MM360]

Pangaea said:

It's an FPS. It's almost as tempting to play as pulling a wisdom tooth with dynamite. ›››

You couldn't be more wrong... Campaign in BOII is a worthy successor to the first game (although I rank the first BO's sp slightly higher) and multiplayer is a blast. I honestly think that BO I & BO II are my favorite shooters this gen.

[Pangaea]

Some like shooting everything that moves in games, others don't. I'm in the latter category. I simply don't find those games enjoyable. People are different.

[Purpleknight]

KnightofPhoenix said:

I point you to Alpha Protocol my friend.
Granted it's not that long, but still. ›››

Now that you mention that cool game, I never played a second time to see how the choices changes the following situations. I guess I have sort of a clue thanks to what guipit says. Nice from Obsidian

[Masos]

MM360 said:

You couldn't be more wrong... Campaign in BOII is a worthy successor to the first game (although I rank the first BO's sp slightly higher) and multiplayer is a blast. I honestly think that BO I & BO II are my favorite shooters this gen. ›››

Agreed.
SP in BO2 has more epic moments and is non-linear, but still BO had a better narrative and had a more original idea.
And as for multiplayer - it's addictive, it's fast paced, it's the core of this title. The SP is an addition.