[Bloth]

Well it never gets dark for Geralt, normal humies in TW2 are I assume blind as bats.

Personally I prefer tropes be subverted and well implemented, there's nothing new under the stars but the presentation can be original.

[SkycladGuardian]

The irony of the author complaining about the ever-presence of Tolkenian fantasy-universes, is that to my knowledge there hasn't been one RPG which comes even close to the ingenuity, variety, depth and subtlety of Tolkien's creation.

[Lord_Roose]

Pham said:

Number 5 I disagree with. Tolkien aka high fantasy is the thing most people think of when they hear the term "fantasy". Its also something people have come to expect out of the RPG genre and you cannot just change that. Of course Elves, Orks and Humans does get boring sometimes and I wish we had more original races in games, but there is only so far you can go. For example, Orks are generally regarded as big, ugly and green. So if you create a new race that is big and ugly but a different color, people would just call them "color" Orks. Same with Elves, everything that is beautiful and has pointy ears is an Elf, regardless of how they are actually called. ›››

Maybe you don't have to create a race that's 'big, ugly, and green.' Maybe you don't need a race of mystical nature hippies. Maybe you don't need a race of beer-swilling, vertically challenged Scots. Tolkien didn't invent Orcs, Elves, and Dwarves, but he popularized them in the 20th century, and while it's still possible to make good use of them (Witcher 2), it's lazy not to consider other alternatives just because their presence "Is the thing most people think of when they hear the term 'fantasy.'" In fantasy literature in the past decade, several authors have creatively tweaked and reinvented the concept of fantastical racial diversity, from China Mieville's Bas-Lag to Adrian Tchaikovsky's Shadows of the Apt to Daniel Abraham's Dagger and Coin. Constant, lazy appropriation of Tolkienesque convention demonstrates a paradox in the fantasy genre, which is supposed to be concerned with the power of fiction to open up any possibility, yet includes fans who insist on slightly altered retreads of the same possibilities. Fantasy should do away with the limitations of conventional literature instead of cleaving the precedents set by a stuffy British reactionary.

Veleda said:

Complaints about tropes need to die. lol

Not really, but I do think it is kind of a hipster activity to engage in. The best stories are the old ones, the classic ones, and the classic game elements the same, because they work and people like them. It's really all in how you present things. The familiar with a twist can be more meaningful than something novel for the sake of novelty. I would really like to see a good Tolkien RPG, for instance- something true to the actual tone and artistic quality of the Silmarillion would be fantastic. ›››

I'll agree that there is a place for "The familiar with a twist." But not everything novel is novel "For the sake of novelty." Sometimes, you know, authors like to be creative and invent their own worlds instead of altering someone else's sandbox.

slimgrin said:

Once again, Kain shows he doesn't have the most nuanced take on things. Veleda sums up my view. Running scared from tropes can be just as contrived as embracing them. Besides, Zoltan Chivay sounds Scottish and I wouldn't have it any other way. ›››

Kain's language is deliberately hyperbolic. He doesn't want anyone to "Run scared." He just wants to see less reliance on 'safe' formulae. Fantasy, as a genre which is supposed to do away with the 'possible,' should be more diverse, as the 'impossible' encompasses, well, everything. Fantasy literature has seen progress in this department. It's time for gaming to follow suit.

Lurtz_Of_Orthanc said:

Tolkien-esque universe - It's popular for a reason. ›››

And devs lean on this popularity as a way to guarantee sales. If games are going to be taken seriously as an artform, they'll need to stake out some new ground.

Zanderat said:

Hmm. Hipster article. You can present the tried and true in new ways (see TW2). THe reason these "tropes" became cliche is because they work and people like them. ›››

Yes. You can present the tried and true in new ways. And Kain does praise TW2. But you know what you can also do? Not present the tried and true.

SkycladGuardian said:

The irony of the author complaining about the ever-presence of Tolkenian fantasy-universes, is that to my knowledge there hasn't been one RPG which comes even close to the ingenuity, variety, depth and subtlety of Tolkien's creation. ›››

That's not ironic. The whole point is that in the post-Tolkien era, literature and film and gaming are inundated with inferior shadows of Tolkien's world.

On a bright note, CDPR does seem set to reinvent the way we perceive open world RPGs with Cyberpunk.

[Ward Dragon]

Pangaea said:

I'd really like to play an RPG based on those books, but it won't be easy to make such a game and make it interesting as well. You kind of need magic in these types of games, so it's an either/or situation. It has to be there and be plentiful, or you don't have it at all. ›››

There already is a Game of Thrones RPG. I'm about 1/3 of the way through it. So far the gameplay is very basic and not much fun but the story seems like it's going somewhere interesting. Anyhow, based on how far I've gotten, there is a slight bit of magic but not too much. There are two main characters and you switch control between them in alternating chapters. One is a swordsman who has some warg abilities which allow you to take control of his dog during certain sequences, and the other character is a fire priest who has some very minor spells like being able to light his sword on fire. I'm not sure how much magic he'll be able to do by the end of the game but so far there really isn't that much magic.

[Chromie92]

Pangaea said:

[*]Limitless supply of magic, making its use less special and 'magical'
›››

I'd add regenerating health and mana. It's a cheap system put in place for something that requires more strategy. Now I never LOVED the Vancian system but I do prefer it to just spamming magical abilites. Cooldowns at least the way they were in DA:O are terrible too.

[Pangaea]

Ward Dragon said:

There already is a Game of Thrones RPG. I'm about 1/3 of the way through it. So far the gameplay is very basic and not much fun but the story seems like it's going somewhere interesting. Anyhow, based on how far I've gotten, there is a slight bit of magic but not too much. There are two main characters and you switch control between them in alternating chapters. One is a swordsman who has some warg abilities which allow you to take control of his dog during certain sequences, and the other character is a fire priest who has some very minor spells like being able to light his sword on fire. I'm not sure how much magic he'll be able to do by the end of the game but so far there really isn't that much magic. ›››

I've heard about a Game of Thrones games, but wasn't aware it was an RPG. From the few screenshots and cover I saw, it looked more like a MMO type of game. Great that it sounds interesting though, maybe I'll pick it up at some point then. With the huge caveat that my computer probably can't handle it right now

How is the combat considering there is little magic? Do you find it interesting or boring, too repetitive with 'only' normal fighting?

Very much agree on the mana system. I don't like it at all, as it most often means you can almost literally cast spells non-stop. The Vancian system isn't perfect either, but I prefer it over the quickly regenerating mana system that most games seem to use these days. There are basically no considerations to take then, but in the Vancian system there is. You can't just blow all the best spells on some weak to medium enemies.

[Greed1914]

Costin Moroianu said:

I think Forbes of all places has more journalistic integrity then IGN, Gamespot, Spike, Gametrailers, PC Gamer, Gamespy and Eurogamer PUT together.

So well done. ›››

I'd say there is accuracy to this. Several months ago when Mass Effect 3 came out, they covered the reaction extensively because it presented a somewhat unique situation from a business perspective. As they argued from a business perspective, a lot of how Bioware and EA handled the situation was rather poor since games are simultaneously art and product, and a bunch of angry customers isn't good, especially if you stumble through with a series of PR blunders. It wasn't so much what the folks at Forbes said, though, that impressed me so much, but the fact that Forbes and its journalists seemed to do a much better job of actually investigating what was going on, like GOOD journalists do, than the gaming sites. A lot of the commentary on the situation from the so-called gaming journalists showed that they were speaking from uninformed opinions. If those were their honest opinions, it would be one thing, but I can't put much stock in the opinions of journalists that couldn't be bothered to actually investigate what the problems were.

[Ward Dragon]

Pangaea said:

I've heard about a Game of Thrones games, but wasn't aware it was an RPG. From the few screenshots and cover I saw, it looked more like a MMO type of game. Great that it sounds interesting though, maybe I'll pick it up at some point then. With the huge caveat that my computer probably can't handle it right now

There are actually two Game of Thrones games. The first is an RTS game and the second is an RPG, so you probably saw screenshots of the RTS game.

Pangaea said:

How is the combat considering there is little magic? Do you find it interesting or boring, too repetitive with 'only' normal fighting? ›››

It's like Dragon Age where you pause the game, queue up attacks or special moves, and then unpause it to let the character do his thing. The special moves have cool-downs and there's also an energy meter to try to limit how often they can be used. Granted I played Dragon Age as a mage, but based on what I saw of my party members the GoT RPG seems very similar to playing Dragon Age as a warrior.

I'm playing on normal difficulty mode (if I'm not familiar with a game I usually pick normal) and so far the combat is not really fun but not too challenging either (I only died a few times, and that was before I figured out how the skills work).

I haven't gotten far enough in the game to have a finalized opinion about it yet, but based on what I've seen so far and what a lot of other people have said, the story is rather good and is the only reason to play the game.

[Seboist]

KnightofPhoenix said:

The tropes that needs to die is having a primarily reactive PC.
The closest we've gotten to a proactive PC is Michael Thorton. More of that please, except make it even better. ›››

Would be nice if we could play as a straight up villain who creates mischief on his own terms for a change.

[FoggyFishburne]

Preset dialogue animations. You know what I'm talking about. Whenever you're talking to someone, the same nod, hand gesture or body movement is repeated ad nauseum. Granted, I do find this particular "trope" (not really a trope since animations are probably limited by the budget) very charming and endearing. RPGs are my favourite genre and seeing the same animations over and over again is quite cute. However, it does sometimes throw me out of the experience and completely kill immersion for me.

There is one scene that comes to mind from ME3. When you approach EDI to talk a little bit about philosophy, shallow philosophy, though philosophy none the less, Shepard turns his body but keeps his head looking at EDI while walking away to a more secluded area. That animation in is just so rough and doesn't fit with the tone of the scene. The animation is firm and determined but what was needed was something soft and compassionate.

Still, nothing that really kills the genre for me or anything but it can really be jarring sometimes. Really jarring. Actually, no, it does kinda kill the genre. I guess as long as the right animation is chosen for a particular scene where it fits with the tone and emotions, then it's all right. But if it's done like in ME3, then invest a couple of more dollars in your fucking animation department and do something about that...

[Veleda]

Pangaea said:

Some of these points are a bit Catch 22. One of the reasons A Song of Ice and Fire is so great is that magic really is rare and kind of under the surface all the time, so it feels truly magical. But how can you do that in a game? I'd really like to play an RPG based on those books, but it won't be easy to make such a game and make it interesting as well. You kind of need magic in these types of games, so it's an either/or situation. It has to be there and be plentiful, or you don't have it at all. ›››

I would love a good game that had no magic, only solid character interaction, an economy, political intrigue and some combat. I don't see why it has to be either-or.

[Chromie92]

KnightofPhoenix said:

The tropes that needs to die is having a primarily reactive PC.
The closest we've gotten to a proactive PC is Michael Thorton. More of that please, except make it even better. ›››

I would keep an eye on Wasteland 2 KoP well I personally am already.