[Gilrond]

Many don't agree with Carmack on a whole number of issues. He stated his personal preference there, not mentioning any merits or shortcomings. If you know where he writes about what actually is better or worse where - I'd be interested to read.

As for game development - SDL is significantly easier to use than DirectX. Where DirectX practically has advantage is debugging I think, which is better developed than OpenGL one. But API itself isn't any easier to use and it's not technically superior - OpenGL 4 and DirectX 11 are on par feature wise.

[Costin Moroianu]

There's also the larger library of games on Direct3D vs OpenGL.

As for Carmack, if he tells me that Direct3D is better then I'll take his word of authority, considering what he has done for games in general I think his words have certain weight.

[Gilrond]

He said it's better for his games. I usually apprericate his opinion on technology in general - he has great articles on various topics. But in this case it's not an objective truth of "Direct3D is better". He thinks it's better for his development. Objectively they are close to each other quality wise. What's significantly different though never changed - DirectX never will become a cross platform API, while OpenGL is. Computing is shifting away from "Windows only" in many aspects, which affects gaming as well, but probably not as fast as other areas. Sticking with DirectX only will become increasingly less practical in the near future. Many mature game engines already support both DirectX and OpenGL as options.

[.Volsung.]

Gilrond said:

He said it's better for his games. I usually apprericate his opinion on technology in general - he has great articles on various topics. But in this case it's not an objective truth of "Direct3D is better". He thinks it's better for his development. Objectively they are close to each other quality wise. What's significantly different though never changed - DirectX never will become a cross platform API, while OpenGL is. Computing is shifting away from "Windows only" in many aspects, which affects gaming as well, but probably not as fast as other areas. Sticking with DirectX only will become increasingly less practical in the near future. Many mature game engines already support both DirectX and OpenGL as options. ›››

Computing has little to do with Windows actually. It is home productivity and gaming that has yet to follow the footsteps of real computing.

And even if OpenGL were slightly messier at the moment (not saying it is), it is a compromise we make in order to secure quality and accessibility of future software. We don't want to be stuck on proprietary technology, especially when these guys also want to tell us how and what to put on our computers.

Don't know if you guys remember, back in the day 3DFx Glide was THE 3D API. It looked awesome and managed to display, back in the 90's, reflections and lighting that Nvidia only managed to do many years later. After 3DFx was absorbed by Nvidia and they discontinued Glide (in favor of OpenGL in many instances), it felt to me like we had gone backwards. But now OpenGL is well-developed, well-specified and fully multiplatform, and I am happy for that change. Too bad for one reason or the other DirectX was pushed down our throats.

A truly multiplatform (including multiple PC operating systems) vision requires using multiplatform technologies. It's an investment in the future.

[Gilrond]

New Humble Bundle release with a bunch of Linux games: https://humblebundle.com

[.Volsung.]

Saw that. I think I'll wait until they add some more titles. I especially like these Android bundles because it is an excellent opportunity to get some of the best titles available at the Play Store, DRM-Free, at a great price

[Gilrond]

Nordic games announced Linux ports for Painkiller Hell and Damnation: http://www.phoronix....item&px=MTMyMDc

[Gilrond]

At last, a clear hint from CDPR that they might be interested in developing games for Linux:

Quote

Adam Badowski: I think the Steambox will be awesome. Because Valve is a digital platform holder, the final contact with the customer will be as easy as possible. That's why we're looking forward to it. We're in contact with Steam, so we're going to be engaged in the process.

http://www.gamesindu...-a-our-strategy

[.Volsung.]

One way or another, I would love TW3 (and 2) for Linux. What people fail to see is that we can optimize a Linux-based system to ridiculous levels, making it an ideal system for intensive small (such as gaming) and large scale computing.

On the other hand, we've got a handful of excellent titles coming out on Linux: Wasteland 2, Project Eternity, Torment: Tides of Numenera.

[Gilrond]

There is a stir now, with Canonical introducing their own graphics server (Mir), and supposedly working with Nvidia to produce new EGL based drivers for it. With the rest of the Linux world moving to Wayland, it might create a fragmentation problem (unless they'll be able to share the drivers).

Steambox will supposedly still use X.org though (with Nvidia hardware and drivers). It's definitely a very interesting time for Linux and things are developing fast. If CDPR show interest in Steambox and claim they are going to be involved - it means they are at least considering making Linux ports. I expect games released for Steambox to be easily runnable on other Linux distros, so that's quite exciting.

[cmdr_silverbolt]

I have to say, I hope Microsoft doesn't get too attached to the store model and comes back from it, or at least scales it down. I hate to think that the solid option for gaming in the next year or so is going to be the Steam box, which seems to have a pretty heavy commitment to a biometrics aspect. The only think that's turning me off from the Steam box is the whole biometrics thing, which I know is not strictly new (wii and kinect etc.), but I am cautious about how these guys want to handle it.

/luddite

[Gilrond]

I think the advance of Steambox will give boost to regular desktop Linux gaming, so there will be a choice.

[.Volsung.]

Gilrond said:

I think the advance of Steambox will give boost to regular desktop Linux gaming, so there will be a choice. ›››

Maybe the Steambox will become a sort of all-in-one package that Steam can officially support. And perhaps they can release the Steambox system as a normal Linux distribution (albeit probably not with a free-software license). We could, potentially, run all Steambox games on a regular gaming PC running any Linux, but particularly Steam's Linux. Here's hoping it won't be Ubuntu... *shudders*

[Gilrond]

Ubuntu created really negative sentiment lately, especially with their Mir announcement. So far I'm not even sure what Valve will do in the future after they decide to switch from X.org to next generation graphics stack. Wayland or Mir? This kind of uncertain situation is actually not good, and I really don't understand why Canonical had to create such confusion. If I'd be making a decision for Valve, I'd just use Debian straight as a base. A rock solid stable distribution (like upcoming Wheezy for example), avoiding all the Ubuntu mess.

Regarding Steambox - games released for it will probably be console oriented (i.e. gamepads and etc.) so not directly usable on normal Linux, unless their developers will keep both use cases in mind. But the benefit will be - more engines and more expertise and boost to modern OpenGL gaming in general. I hope CDPR will not just release Steambox targeted versions, but will also produce full featured desktop oriented Linux releases in the future.

[.Volsung.]

My dislike towards Ubuntu comes from a different kind of hassle. Ubuntu completely disregards things like the filesystem hierarchy standard, leaving a chaotic mess of configuration files laying all over the place. The only time I used Ubuntu on one of my computers (a modified version of 8.10 called Eeebuntu, for an Eee PC netbook) I had to "break it down" (remove pulseaudio, remove multiple start up services, remove certain graphical managers) to the point that it resembled Debian, so that I could actually get things done. I am used to doing/undoing things the Debian way, including manipulating kernel modules, kernel source files, all sorts of configuration files, dynamically linked libraries, and so on. Ubuntu is NOT Debian.

Of course, being endorsed by a company, Ubuntu has had the resources most other distributions (except maybe Red Hat) lack. While Red Hat has positioned itself as the de facto distribution for enterprise services, Ubuntu has become sort of the default distribution for home users. Sadly, I would say.

[Gilrond]

I'd say Canonical PRed Ubuntu as a "home" oriented distribution. But I'm not convinced that it's dominating amongst Linux users by a wide margin. Linux Mint is quite popular (even though it's Ubuntu based, they seem to be interested in rebasing it on Debian straight). Debian and Arch are widely used as well. Fedora and openSUSE too I think. Canonical doesn't seem as professional as Red Hat to me. I.e. the way the act towards the community.

Why Mir problem concerns me really is the risk of drivers fragmentation. Their whole move might cause another distraction amongst hardware vendors, similar to what Android already caused. I.e. if Mir drivers won't be useful for Wayland - it'll be a big problem.

[cmdr_silverbolt]

.Volsung. said:

Maybe the Steambox will become a sort of all-in-one package that Steam can officially support. ›››

The Steam box is strange- if the intent is to promote Linux gaming, and hence Linux systems, then what's the point of creating a proprietary system which will be limited or closed off to the range of available distros. Or am I missing something?

But yeah, I can see how Linux gamers hope this focus on Linux will provide more incentive for developers to make/port more games for them.

[.Volsung.]

There is a Debian-based Linux Mint. I think it's pure Debian with a theme, some applications and eye candy. That's what I recommend for home users.

I should read into that whole Wayland/Mir issue you mention.

[Gilrond]

cmdr_flashheart said:

The Steam box is strange- if the intent is to promote Linux gaming, and hence Linux systems, then what's the point of creating a proprietary system which will be limited or closed off to the range of available distros. Or am I missing something?

Steambox is Valve's attempt to enter consoles market which right now is dominated by MS, Sony and the like. Instead of reinventing the wheel, they decided to do the right thing - to use Linux as their OS. Kind of creating their own custom distro. How closed / controlled it will be so far isn't clear, but they claim it will be more open than current walled gardens of MS and Sony. Naturally it will also use conventional technologies like regular POSIX, OpenGL, SDL, and etc. However they want to make a console. I.e. it will put some design restrictions on the games (like input controls and so on). So far they seem to be interested in general desktop Linux gaming as well with their Steam for Linux move. So hopefully this could be a shared effort. So I guess raw Steambox games won't be very useful for regular Linux players as is, but they should be trivially portable / adjustable to desktop distros if their developers will be of course interested. CDPR seem to be interested in serious approach - i.e. creating separate interfaces for consoles and desktops, but it doesn't mean everyone would do the same.

.Volsung.: Some pointers:

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MirSpec
http://www.phoronix....item&px=MTMxNzY
http://www.phoronix....item&px=MTMxODA
http://www.phoronix....item&px=MTMxODY
http://www.markshutt...m/archives/1235
https://plus.google....sts/hzRy1rJaafc
http://blog.martin-g...3/war-is-peace/

[Gilrond]

Looks like the drivers situation is clearing up and things look good: https://plus.google....sts/QwMqCgC7c9G