[Bloth]

You still merge with the Transcendant one if you destroy him, and thus are him, if I remember rightly. And he is the mortality of the first incarnation, as well as an immensely evil creature.

If Trias dies you should see a cutscene of Fhjull being freed, not sure if it fires when Vhailor decides to end matters.

Ravel and thus Mebbeth may well be being kind there, to know that you're descended from one of the greatest evils ever to stalk the planes is hardly a kindness, and certainly does not seem to have made Kesai content. Annah had a hard enough life, why add to it with such grim tidings? This seems like something both Mebbeth and Ravel would do for the fiery young Tiefling, especially considering her near pathological dread of the supernatural.

Edit: I do think there should have been an ending where you chose to accept the Transcendant Ones offer, and live on in Sigil, your mind quietly dying while he grows ever stronger. Obviously this would be a bit morally repulsive to many, stealing other innocent lives so that the two of you might continue your symbiotic leech like existence, but it should have been an option.

[Corylea]

I'm sorry you didn't love the game, Ward Dragon. I remember reading The Lord of the Rings for the first time, after everyone had told me it was The Best Book Ever Written, the book to end all books, the most amazing and wonderful thing ever, ever, EVAH, and I was hugely disappointed. I thought LotR was a good book, but nothing could have lived up to the build-up I got. And then I got to be thought shallow for not bowing down to worship it. So, yeah, experiencing something that's merely very good after you've been told it's the most astonishingly wonderful thing ever can suck.


I thought the ending was beautiful, actually. Like you, I played a good Nameless, and you're right that that particular incarnation didn't deserve to be punished. But the whole weary mess had come about because the first incarnation was trying to avoid just punishment for his actions, and the whole cycle could only be broken if someone was willing to step up, take responsibility, and be punished. In that way, a good Nameless is sort of a Christ figure, someone who knowingly takes on others' sins in order to do good.

By that point in the game, I was so horrified by the evil my past selves had done that I was willing for my poor Nameless to be punished in order to end the cycle. And knowing that some other innocent soul had died in my place every time that I had died -- even though I didn't know that at the time, and even though I wasn't the one who had set things up that way -- made me feel that my Nameless owed plenty, even though he hadn't been aware that he had been killing other people in his stead every time he died. (I didn't die all that often in combat, but there's that puzzle room that a previous incarnation left for you where you HAVE TO die several times in order to pass through the room.)

An evil self probably wouldn't do what needed to be done, so I thought the situation required a good incarnation to sacrifice himself to end the cycle of rebirth so that no more innocents would be killed. My Nameless knowingly sacrificed himself, and I was proud of him for having the guts to do what needed doing.

My Nameless was a fighter, and I thought that the Blood War wouldn't be a terrible punishment for him; he could continue to fight for the right, and it would be a lot like the incarnation he'd had so far. Running around finding out all of the evil his past selves had done hadn't exactly been a good time; I thought the Blood War might actually be rather a relief.


I didn't feel as attached to my companions as I have to some companions in other games; I didn't like Dak'kon the way I liked Zoltan in TW1 or Alistair in DA:O. But I felt terribly responsible for all of my companions, once I found out what dirt my past selves had done them. They were MINE in a way that companions in other games have never been. So, yeah, I hear you on the emotional attachment, but all of these people are in this fix because of my past selves; I was desperate to put that right and to free these folks from the chains that my previous incarnations had wrapped them in.


For me, the ending was gorgeous, satisfying, and RIGHT. I'm sorry you didn't find it so.

[Bloth]

Hello Corylea, sorry to be off-topic but yeah that's me on the Cyberpunk boards, had no idea how to reply there so I thought i'd do it here next time I saw you.

[.Volsung.]

Blothulfur said:

/> Hello Corylea, sorry to be off-topic but yeah that's me on the Cyberpunk boards, had no idea how to reply there so I thought i'd do it here next time I saw you. ›››

Thanks for the off-topic. I wouldn't have noticed there are Cyberpunk boards up and running otherwise.

Should we start a Classic RPG's thread in there too?

[Ward Dragon]

Blothulfur said:

You still merge with the Transcendant one if you destroy him, and thus are him, if I remember rightly. And he is the mortality of the first incarnation, as well as an immensely evil creature.

Oh, I just kind of thought the Transcendant One was destroyed (it shows a cutscene of him disappearing piece by piece). I didn't realize he rejoins the Nameless One even when he's killed.

Blothulfur said:

If Trias dies you should see a cutscene of Fhjull being freed, not sure if it fires when Vhailor decides to end matters.

Hmm, I don't remember seeing the cutscene, but it could be a glitch or it could be due to the game not wanting to punish me for Vhailor's actions. In the situation where the player kills Trias, does Fhjull still act as if he is bound to do good deeds?

Blothulfur said:

Ravel and thus Mebbeth may well be being kind there, to know that you're descended from one of the greatest evils ever to stalk the planes is hardly a kindness, and certainly does not seem to have made Kesai content. Annah had a hard enough life, why add to it with such grim tidings? This seems like something both Mebbeth and Ravel would do for the fiery young Tiefling, especially considering her near pathological dread of the supernatural.

I suppose, although Kesai did seem very relieved at the end of it all. She finally knew for sure who her mother was, that her mother loved her, and that her mother was dead and therefore would never come for her And honestly speaking, Ravel seemed like a better person than Pharod (yeah Ravel did more damage, but she seemed at least somewhat well-intentioned although very misguided). If I was Annah, I'd rather have Ravel for a parent than Pharod

I just had one final thought on this, since I remembered that you brought up that Ravel reacted differently to Annah as opposed to Grace. Ravel mainly attacked Grace for trying to change her nature and become something different from what a succubus is supposed to be.

I'm probably reading too much into things, but I think part of the reason that Ravel was so obsessed with how to change someone's nature is that she wished she was a better person so that she could be there for Kesai without hurting her (this is what I got out of Mebbeth's final words). Ravel tried to change herself and do good deeds, but she misunderstood how to be good and therefore her actions always backfired and caused more pain.

At this point when Ravel meets the party in the maze, she knows things are drawing to a close and it's too late for her to change, so I think she's jealous that Grace was able to change. I think that's why she was harsh towards Grace but not towards Annah.

Blothulfur said:

Edit: I do think there should have been an ending where you chose to accept the Transcendant Ones offer, and live on in Sigil, your mind quietly dying while he grows ever stronger. Obviously this would be a bit morally repulsive to many, stealing other innocent lives so that the two of you might continue your symbiotic leech like existence, but it should have been an option. ›››

Whoa, I wouldn't have done that, but now that you bring it up I agree it should be an option. Does the Nameless One die of old age? If he secludes himself and doesn't do anything dangerous he might get away with not dying again and therefore not killing anyone else.

But anyhow, I meant to ask earlier, you said that the Blood War is officially over now as far as Planescape is concerned. Were the NPC's right about what would happen if the Blood War ended? Are the Baatezu and Taanarri now causing even more havoc due to not focusing on each other?

Corylea said:

I'm sorry you didn't love the game, Ward Dragon. I remember reading The Lord of the Rings for the first time, after everyone had told me it was The Best Book Ever Written, the book to end all books, the most amazing and wonderful thing ever, ever, EVAH, and I was hugely disappointed. I thought LotR was a good book, but nothing could have lived up to the build-up I got. And then I got to be thought shallow for not bowing down to worship it. /> So, yeah, experiencing something that's merely very good after you've been told it's the most astonishingly wonderful thing ever can suck.

Thanks. I actually felt the same way when I read the Lord of the Rings books. I enjoyed them, but I was a bit disappointed because they didn't quite live up to the hype.

Corylea said:

I thought the ending was beautiful, actually. Like you, I played a good Nameless, and you're right that that particular incarnation didn't deserve to be punished. But the whole weary mess had come about because the first incarnation was trying to avoid just punishment for his actions, and the whole cycle could only be broken if someone was willing to step up, take responsibility, and be punished. In that way, a good Nameless is sort of a Christ figure, someone who knowingly takes on others' sins in order to do good.

I understand that, but in general I disagree with the idea that someone needs to be punished just for the sake of punishing someone. I kind of agree with Vhailor's view that punishment is meant to make people better (although I'm not sure Vhailor himself is too concerned with moral alignment so his view of better might be different from mine ).

But in the case of a good Nameless One, he's already reformed and become a much better person so I don't see why punishment is necessary. His death is necessary from a practical standpoint because it's the only way to end the cycle, but I don't see what good it will serve to punish him further after he's already died.

Corylea said:

By that point in the game, I was so horrified by the evil my past selves had done that I was willing for my poor Nameless to be punished in order to end the cycle. And knowing that some other innocent soul had died in my place every time that I had died -- even though I didn't know that at the time, and even though I wasn't the one who had set things up that way -- made me feel that my Nameless owed plenty, even though he hadn't been aware that he had been killing other people in his stead every time he died. (I didn't die all that often in combat, but there's that puzzle room that a previous incarnation left for you where you HAVE TO die several times in order to pass through the room.)

Yeah, I had a real sinking feeling once I learned that someone had to die in my place every time. I don't consider that to be murder by the Nameless One since he had no idea (I think murder requires intentionally killing someone) so I don't hold him morally responsible. However if there was a way to actually make up for it, like maybe providing for the families of the people who died in his place or something like that, then I definitely would have done it. I just don't see how fighting in the Blood War makes up for it.

Corylea said:

I didn't feel as attached to my companions as I have to some companions in other games; I didn't like Dak'kon the way I liked Zoltan in TW1 or Alistair in DA:O. But I felt terribly responsible for all of my companions, once I found out what dirt my past selves had done them. They were MINE in a way that companions in other games have never been. So, yeah, I hear you on the emotional attachment, but all of these people are in this fix because of my past selves; I was desperate to put that right and to free these folks from the chains that my previous incarnations had wrapped them in.

That might be part of why I felt so attached to Morte, Deionarra, and Ravel (knowing that they were connected to me from before and feeling like I owed them enough to at least try setting things right). I felt that way about Dak'kon a bit too, but overall I didn't connect with him very much (maybe I was subconsciously picking up on how he hated me for what I did to him before).

I don't think the Nameless One had met Annah, Grace, or Nordom in the past though. And Ignus and Vhailor were very dangerous so even though I felt somewhat responsible for them, I was still too nervous around them to actually like them

Corylea said:

For me, the ending was gorgeous, satisfying, and RIGHT. I'm sorry you didn't find it so. ›››

Thanks I did find some interesting "good ending," "neutral ending," and "bad ending" soundtracks on Youtube when I did a search to see if I had missed one of the possible endings. The descriptions claimed that originally there was going to be a separate ending for good and neutral characters but due to time constraints the bad ending became the default. I have no idea if this is true so I wondered if you knew anything about this. If there is a description somewhere of what the good ending would have been, then I'll just read that and pretend it happened for my character

[Corylea]

In the real world, I agree with you. What the current Nameless did was not murder, and punishment is to improve the person, not necessary for some cosmic balancing of the scales. But in THIS world, I thought the game was telling me that things were set up such that someone did have to be punished. I suspended disbelief enough to buy into that concept for long enough to enjoy the game, even though I'd find it repugnant in the real world. Of course, I didn't like or trust Vhalior, so I didn't have the conversations with him that you had, and it sounds like those conversations made a big difference for you.

I don't know anything about alternate endings, but if you dig them up, I hope you'll post a link here.

[Bloth]

No you're right Ward Dragon, he does dissapear bit by bit. In that case I assume it's just whatever power of Baator that took over your contract from Fhjull or Fork Tongue himself who is settling the books, taking the payment that was due centuries ago. Fhjull's charity is totally bound to the Deva, with his death he should be freed.

I don't buy that about Ravel, she was not a being of mercy, Mebbeth was but not the grey lady herself. Think of the evil she commited across the planes, all searching for one answer, to understand how to change the Nameless One. She hurt so many innocents in the pursuit of that that her name was a dark whisper, even in the cage. It was all to change his nature, nobody else mattered, she was selfish. Saying that, I do agree that she was a being of principle, the very fact that she sought to open the cage and free the lady, was a noble act shaming the heavens themselves. She's wonderfully flawed and complicated, and undoubtedly one of the high points of the game, Chris Avellone really knows how to write damn good female characters.

Wizards of the Coast and their fourth edition have just absolutely destroyed the planescape setting.

I too felt the burden of responsibility, for me that stretched back to all my previous incarnations, and I gladly accepted the punishment as a way to stop the cycle of death and pay back the inumerable legion of shadows that I had birthed. Once i'd joined with all the other parts of my essence we were one, and the few good deeds I had commited weighed nothing next to my original crime, and its lingering after effects.

I don't agree with a lot of the morality in the planescape universe, such as the tyranny of the wall of the faithless, but in this case I thought that my crime warranted that and much more. I could not do anything to assuage my guilt to the shadows I had born, next to their combined suffering my service in the Blood War is a little thing.

As far as I know I think it was just the music that got missed out from the ending, it's been replaced in one of Quinns fixes, along with Mortes theme, an alternative Smouldering Corpse tune and a few others.

Then again i'm biased, i've always been a big fan of well implemented tragedy.

[Ward Dragon]

Corylea said:

In the real world, I agree with you. What the current Nameless did was not murder, and punishment is to improve the person, not necessary for some cosmic balancing of the scales. But in THIS world, I thought the game was telling me that things were set up such that someone did have to be punished. I suspended disbelief enough to buy into that concept for long enough to enjoy the game, even though I'd find it repugnant in the real world. Of course, I didn't like or trust Vhalior, so I didn't have the conversations with him that you had, and it sounds like those conversations made a big difference for you.

I guess. I went into the game knowing nothing of the Planescape universe so I didn't fully realize how death works there. I listened to what all of the NPC's had to say and I thought I had the general idea, but apparently I was still expecting it to match my definition of justice on some level which it did not

From what the NPC's said, I thought that once someone dies they go to the plane matching their alignment and then become further in tune with that alignment until they become part of that plane. So I was expecting my Nameless One to go to the plane for Lawful Good since that's where I ended up, but instead he goes to the plane for Neutral Evil. Does this mean he will gradually become Neutral Evil despite all my hard work reforming him?

I probably would have felt the same way with or without Vhailor. However, having spoken with him and heard his definition of justice, it's very unsettling to find out that he's right and that's how the system actually works there O_O I had hoped that he was at least partially wrong about no mercy existing (he even seemed to acknowledge that the Nameless One's suffering could make up for some of his past crimes). But no, his extremely rigid fanatical idea of justice is what actually happens there, and I don't like the idea of an afterlife run by Vhailor (or someone who thinks like him)

Corylea said:

I don't know anything about alternate endings, but if you dig them up, I hope you'll post a link here. ›››

Oh well. I can't find anything either, but if I do I'll definitely post it

Blothulfur said:

No you're right Ward Dragon, he does dissapear bit by bit. In that case I assume it's just whatever power of Baator that took over your contract from Fhjull or Fork Tongue himself who is settling the books, taking the payment that was due centuries ago. Fhjull's charity is totally bound to the Deva, with his death he should be freed.

I kind of sold Fhjull out to the Pillar of Skulls so I thought he had been killed by the other devils

Blothulfur said:

I don't buy that about Ravel, she was not a being of mercy, Mebbeth was but not the grey lady herself. Think of the evil she commited across the planes, all searching for one answer, to understand how to change the Nameless One. She hurt so many innocents in the pursuit of that that her name was a dark whisper, even in the cage. It was all to change his nature, nobody else mattered, she was selfish.

I'm not saying she was good. I'm saying that I think on some level she *wanted* to be good even though she didn't really understand how. She kind of succeeded in being good as Mebbeth (although she acknowledges it doesn't make up for all of the bad that she did before), and with her dying dialogue she really seemed to regret that she wasn't a better person. That's why I think she wanted to learn how to change her own nature.

She sounds bitter towards the other party members who have changed. She mocks Grace for being a chaste succubus, she mocks Dak'kon for being lawful and keeping his vows, she mocks Morte for trying to act happy and playful despite his past, and she mocks Nordom for going rogue and trying to understand things beyond his programming. The only one she doesn't mock is Annah because Annah acts like a regular tiefling (as far as I understand things). This is why I think she's jealous and doesn't want to admit that the others were able to change their natures despite that she couldn't change hers.

Blothulfur said:

Saying that, I do agree that she was a being of principle, the very fact that she sought to open the cage and free the lady, was a noble act shaming the heavens themselves. She's wonderfully flawed and complicated, and undoubtedly one of the high points of the game, Chris Avellone really knows how to write damn good female characters.

Exactly This is what I mean when I say she wants to be good but doesn't know how. She thinks she's doing a good thing by trying to free the Lady, but she doesn't take into account the consequences and how much suffering it would cause for Sigil to be overrun by demons.

Blothulfur said:

Wizards of the Coast and their fourth edition have just absolutely destroyed the planescape setting.

Oh, that's sad

Blothulfur said:

I too felt the burden of responsibility, for me that stretched back to all my previous incarnations, and I gladly accepted the punishment as a way to stop the cycle of death and pay back the inumerable legion of shadows that I had birthed. Once i'd joined with all the other parts of my essence we were one, and the few good deeds I had commited weighed nothing next to my original crime, and its lingering after effects.

I don't agree with a lot of the morality in the planescape universe, such as the tyranny of the wall of the faithless, but in this case I thought that my crime warranted that and much more. I could not do anything to assuage my guilt to the shadows I had born, next to their combined suffering my service in the Blood War is a little thing.

Then again i'm biased, i've always been a big fan of well implemented tragedy. ›››

I'm glad you enjoyed it Maybe I'll replay the game as an evil character at some point and then I'll agree that the bastard deserves the ending

Blothulfur said:

As far as I know I think it was just the music that got missed out from the ending, it's been replaced in one of Quinns fixes, along with Mortes theme, an alternative Smouldering Corpse tune and a few others.

Ah, I guess that makes sense. Thanks for the explanation

[Bloth]

Personally I thought Annah turned against her nature almost as much as the others, she was following a man, working in a team, not chasing loot or some great treasure. Coming and going at his bidding, because she was enamoured of him. For such a volatile and independent personality, her own behaviour must have seemed almost mad, especially when so many elements that a hiver would normally steer well clear of would crop up in their quests.

Funnily enough Torment is one of the few games where I always end up playing the same alignment, no matter how hard I try I always end up drifting to Lawful Good. Mainly because of Deionarra, I can't lie to her anymore, even if I know it would be merciful, and that shapes my other actions.

Oh the Nameless One going to Khin Oin in the Grey Wastes isn't where he should be (unless he's Neutral Evil like you say,) that's just where he'll be serving in the Blood War, paying the original debt that he owed to the Baatezu. I always thought that original deal with the devils might have something to do with Es Annon, though I don't know why.

[Ward Dragon]

Blothulfur said:

Personally I thought Annah turned against her nature almost as much as the others, she was following a man, working in a team, not chasing loot or some great treasure. Coming and going at his bidding, because she was enamoured of him. For such a volatile and independent personality, her own behaviour must have seemed almost mad, especially when so many elements that a hiver would normally steer well clear of would crop up in their quests.

I guess that makes sense. I still kind of think there's a difference though. With the other party members, they were going against the very essence of what it means to be their species. Annah still seemed to act like a tiefling even if she was conflicted about her feelings for the Nameless One, so that's why I didn't really think of her as going against her nature (or at least not to the same extent as the others).

Blothulfur said:

Funnily enough Torment is one of the few games where I always end up playing the same alignment, no matter how hard I try I always end up drifting to Lawful Good. Mainly because of Deionarra, I can't lie to her anymore, even if I know it would be merciful, and that shapes my other actions.

Yeah, that will probably happen to me too I might try to play as an evil character anyway just to see what's different, but I think it'll be a real struggle for me to choose some of the evil options just because of how awful that would make me feel.

Blothulfur said:

Oh the Nameless One going to Khin Oin in the Grey Wastes isn't where he should be (unless he's Neutral Evil like you say,) that's just where he'll be serving in the Blood War, paying the original debt that he owed to the Baatezu. I always thought that original deal with the devils might have something to do with Es Annon, though I don't know why. ›››

Ah, okay. I kept getting confused about whether the Nameless One had died in the end or not. I guess that fits better if he's just serving a period of time in the war and then will be free to go wherever he belongs afterwards.

[Bloth]

I still wonder which incarnation taught Ignus his "art?" He's described somewhere (Ignus' girlfriend?) as a "Mage of Power," which might mean he's just a strong sorceror, however that was also a title in the Suel Imperium of the Greyhawk campaign setting. I believe that Vecna was once a Mage of Power in some timelines, ah well something to mull over.

[Ward Dragon]

Blothulfur said:

I still wonder which incarnation taught Ignus his "art?" He's described somewhere (Ignus' girlfriend?) as a "Mage of Power," which might mean he's just a strong sorceror, however that was also a title in the Suel Imperium of the Greyhawk campaign setting. I believe that Vecna was once a Mage of Power in some timelines, ah well something to mull over. ›››

I don't know much about the lore outside of the game so I don't know if any of the past incarnations were meant to be characters from the official stories. I know it wasn't the Practical Incarnation because I asked him and he didn't know Ignus, so I just kind of assumed that it was meant to show that many other incarnations acted that way too over the course of the Nameless One's lifetimes. I think the game was trying to emphasize that even though it was only showing three incarnations at the end, they were still a tiny fraction of everything that he had done over the years.

[Bloth]

Yeah that's generally what I thought, though there were a lot of references to Greyhawk throughout the game (dancing sorceries with Lum the Mad, the Head of Vecna etcetera,) I think that the devs just liked those well known names.

[Ward Dragon]

Blothulfur said:

Yeah that's generally what I thought, though there were a lot of references to Greyhawk throughout the game (dancing sorceries with Lum the Mad, the Head of Vecna etcetera,) I think that the devs just liked those well known names. ›››

Right, that makes sense. I'm sure I missed it all due to not knowing the setting, but they probably wanted to include a lot of references as a nod to players who were familiar with Planescape so that the game would feel more authentic and connected to the Planescape lore.

[Glaroug]

Whoa...

Seriously, wow. That was powerful. I felt a very strong sense of destiny in its conclusion, a destiny that I--something outside anything the game could create--fullfilled. I've never experienced that and doubt I will again.

Great credit music too. The music and visuals throughout makes me wish they'd make a Dark Sun game.

[Pangaea]

Congratulations on finishing it. It's a one in a lifetime game. Wish I could play it unspoiled again.

[Bloth]

Congrats, now you know what can change the nature of a man.

[Glaroug]

My head's still swimming. I was blown away by the power of Ravel's question, but only before I entered the Fortress did I grasp my answer, thanks to the words of my friends, my loved ones that died because of me--for me. One way or another I killed them. As I faced myself, I believe I came to *know* what could change the nature of a man.

Then the game's ending threw it all in the wash. I'm curious, what can change the nature of a man?

The games been out for almost 15 years now so I feel like a broken record but honesty, that was a masterpiece. It is near impossible to understate to size of those shoes Torment: Tides of Numeria has to fill.

It was also awesome to see the Robert Jordan themes in the world and characters, particularly the Nameless.

[.Volsung.]

Did you talk to Dak'kon about his past? Did he tell you about the Gith and the ruins of Shrak'at'lor? Did Ignus tell you about his former master and did he burn your body parts? Did you touch Deionarra's sensory stone? Did you talk to Coaxmetal and did he reveal a weakness of the Transcendent One? Did Morte tell you the story of the man walking down an alley with a crone laughing at his back?

This game is not extremely long but its implications are infinite. Some authors need more than 400 pages in a shitty paperback novel to tell a worthless story; others like Jorge Luis Borges manage to tell a story of infinite proportions in only a few pages. I believe PS:T falls under this second category.

So Glaroug, now that you played and finished this game. As a new game player do you still believe it is just nostalgia for "old style games with ugly graphics" what makes us so excited about this new wave of crowdfunded cRPG's?

[Glaroug]

Quote

Did you talk to Dak'kon about his past? Did he tell you about the Gith and the ruins of Shrak'at'lor? Did Ignus tell you about his former master and did he burn your body parts? Did you touch Deionarra's sensory stone? Did you talk to Coaxmetal and did he reveal a weakness of the Transcendent One? Did Morte tell you the story of the man walking down an alley with a crone laughing at his back?

I talked to all my companions and feel like they told me all they could. And I ceratinly went back to see my dear old Mebbeth. I touched all the sensory stones and even tried fooling with the bronze sphere to talk to the "original" me, but couldn't figure it out. I'm glad too; I defiantly don't want to know what crime led me to run from me fate for who knows how long. However, I have no idea who Coaxmetal is, sounds like I missed an awesome character

I did meet Vahilnor. I relalized only too late I left Ignus in Ravel's Maze. I guess I cuold have reloaded, but I think me companions prefer it this way. Guess Ignus does not forget easily. Not 2 minutes after Vahilnor joined our party they were begging me to bring Ingus back. He had some facinating stories, but that is one baaaaaaad dude with the power of 10 men. After Taris left us in peace to seek forgiveness, he just smashed his face in !!! I guess Slither Tongue is happy at least.

Quote

So Glaroug, now that you played and finished this game. As a new game player do you still believe it is just nostalgia for "old style games with ugly graphics" what makes us so excited about this new wave of crowdfunded cRPG's?

Haha! Its downright sinful to suggest it. From a narrative perspective, I enjoyed it more than the Witcher, and I NEVER thought I'd say that about any game. Its truly very, VERY good. Its really beautiful as well and somehow reminds me of Wallace and Gromit. Maybe its the texture...?


I spent quite a solid bit searching for what I thought could change the nature of a man when Ravel asked. Her answer was really interesting. Why does she care what I think? Now I figure it has everything to do with "me" being just a piece of the "original" me. What did this incarnation think? Beliefs are so powerful in Planescape, powerful enough to create and destroy. In my journeys this was idea was presented time and time again: Dak'kon and *knowing* as well as his enslavement to me, Pharod throwing away his life in a manner not unlike my original self, and it was belief that created that metal tank with an axe.

Belief can change the nature of a man--or deva, leading a creature or purest good to lie and decieve. Taris's betrayal struck me like a hammer, though in hindsight, Falls-From-Grace showed me a race does not define someone.

Why then did I end up in a horrible plague or irony, in the Lower Planes if I was good? I found this disturbing, but then I came to *know*. THIS was what I was running from. THIS was what I could not face before. Avoiding this fate was WHY I became immortal to begin with. It sucks for sure, but know I see this is right. I believe it.

Sorry for the long post, especially since the game has been out for so long I just needed to say something about it before I burst