[Wichat]

Costin Moroianu said:

And you claim you have no bias towards Iorveth? Right. ›››

Why not? Why can I not do it?

[Costin Moroianu]

You want others to show an objective view of a situation when you yourself are not willing to do so?

[Wichat]

Costin Moroianu said:

You want others to show an objective view of a situation when you yourself are not willing to do so? ›››

Are you asking to yourself, aren't you?

[Costin Moroianu]

Wichat said:

Are you asking to yourself, aren't you? ›››

I've made my position perfectly clear from the start: The Scoia'Tael are murderers and terrorists and their methods are not justifiable. Furthermore I have never argued that the discrimination against non-humans ( note not Scoia'Tael ) is right but rather that fighting against it with the goal of slaughtering all humans is the wrong way to go about it.

That's a lot more objective then your argument that mass murdering people is justifiable.

[M4xw0lf]

Costin Moroianu said:

I've made my position perfectly clear from the start: The Scoia'Tael are murderers and terrorists and their methods are not justifiable. Furthermore I have never argued that the discrimination against non-humans ( note not Scoia'Tael ) is right but rather that fighting against it with the goal of slaughtering all humans is the wrong way to go about it.

That's a lot more objective then your argument that mass murdering people is justifiable. ›››

It's pointed out several times in the game that Roche is every bit as ruthless as Iorveth.

[Costin Moroianu]

Is he? Does Roche want to slaughter every single non-human in existence? Because Iorveth wants to slaughter every human.

[KnightofPhoenix]

M4xw0lf said:

It's pointed out several times in the game that Roche is every bit as ruthless as Iorveth. ›››

He is, and so are the blue stripes. We hear one of them say "raping and pillaging. my favorite diversion." We also saw them having no respect whatsoever for local human customs, so I dread to think what they'd do to nonhuman ones.

But there is no evidence whatsoever that Roche and his commando target nonhuman communities for the sake of it. What the journal entry says is that they deal with rebelling nonhumans, and I have no doubt they do so cruelly. The Scoia'Tael on the other hand target all human settlements indiscriminately. They are fighting a racial war in which there is no human innocent (Iorveth laughed at the idea). The Blue Stripe's mandate is not fighting a war against nonhumans, but against those who go against the king.

So their ruthlessness are on a different scale, based on the difference in the war they are fighting.

[Wichat]

Blue Stripes were one of Folstet's forces created only for pogrom, one of excuses that Sorceres used to betray one each other in Thanned disaster. That's why Iorveth acuses Vernon to be an assasin of women and children. In times of no pogroms, BS just hunt Scoia'taels down.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Wichat said:

Blue Stripes were one of Folstet's forces created only for pogrom, one of excuses that Sorceres used to betray one each other in Thanned disaster. That's why Iorveth acuses Vernon to be an assasin of women and children. In times of no pogroms, BS just hunt Scoia'taels down. ›››

Where does it say that the Blue stripes were only created for pogroms? They were created specifically to counter the Scoia'Tael and then their mandate expanded to strengthen Temeria within and without. There is absolutely no evidence that they massacre nonhumans for the sake of it. They do so when they rebel.

[Wichat]

KnightofPhoenix said:

Where does it say that the Blue stripes were only created for pogroms? They were created specifically to counter the Scoia'Tael and then their mandate expanded to strengthen Temeria within and without. There is absolutely no evidence that they massacre nonhumans for the sake of it. They do so when they rebel. ›››

In the books

[Costin Moroianu]

Does it refer specifically to the Blue Stripe or just the Special forces in general?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Wichat said:

In the books ›››

Did the books show them killing nonhuman communities even when they were not rebelling? Just for the sake of it? And was it issued from high command or some soldiers did it of their own volition?
I can see them slaughtering nonhumans suspected of collaborating with the Scoia'Tael, but that's different.

[Wichat]

KnightofPhoenix said:

Did the books show them killing nonhuman communities even when they were not rebelling? Just for the sake of it? And was it issued from high command or some soldiers did it of their own volition?
I can see them slaughtering nonhumans suspected of collaborating with the Scoia'Tael, but that's different. ›››

They talk about it, just a ñittñe. Sapkowski wrote more about Dryads than elven but he doesn't hide the cruelty and racisme of human, and king and sorceres ambition.

[KnightofPhoenix]

No one is denying the cruelty of humans.

[Jeannyd]

My choice of Iorveth is based solely on my preferences from the books. Humans, being cruel, primitive, possessive and having a significantly more mundane culture, are absolutely nothing compared to the elves. Not only did they take land that once belonged to Aen Seidhe, but they started to eliminate them slowly. In the end, elves and dwarves became inferior in the Northern Kingdoms, being treated like cattle, or even worse than that. So, there wasn't much left for the elder races but to start military resistance - Scoia'tael. I'm not saying that terrorism is OK, but the choice left to the elves - living among humans and being humiliated in every way or fighting among Scoia'tael - is very difficult, and I'm not surprised many of them joined the resistance and fought out of hatred for the humans. It was the humans who started this war, and not the elder races.

As for the game events, I just think Iorveth is more dependable and far more thoughtful than Roche. Besides, his path is extremely awesome, dwarves rule, Saskia rules, even Philippa and Stennis are nice (up to a certain point, of course), and fighting for Saskia's new order is a great goal that I totally support.

[Random drowner]

Well, I role-played my Geralt pretty seriously and since he RELUCTANTLY helped Yaevinn and Toruviel in W1, it seemed logical to help Iorveth since they were going to Vergen (Where Triss had been forced to teleport).
I went with Iorveth in hope of influence him and keeping the Scoia'tael from attacking non-military targets or otherwise kill innocents.

[Costin Moroianu]

I think Iorveth was already set on doing that however. If anyone is in need of being set on the right path it's Roche.

Despite my bashing of the Scoia'Tael I DO like Iorveth as a character, but it's precisely because he realized that yes his actions are idiotic and self-destructive and it's time to do something better.

[Wichat]

Costin Moroianu said:

I think Iorveth was already set on doing that however. If anyone is in need of being set on the right path it's Roche.
›››

You forget to add "in my own opinion". I think you should not say to any player what is RIGHT or WRONG to chose any path. In the Witcher games, right or wrong doesn't exist. You prefer Roche, it's OK, but it seems you despise people who think differently from yours. Your passion and enthusiasm will take you to use terminology uncompromising and almost domineering (like an inmature teenager would do and this is not you ). And so it is easy to fall in a personal discussion

[Costin Moroianu]

Quote

In the Witcher games, right or wrong doesn't exist.

Right and wrong are defined by each individual player in their playthroughs, it's one of the great things about the Witcher that the game doesn't tell you what is good or bad but let's YOU decide that. I don't take issue or even give a damn for what they do in their own games but I do care when they attempt to portray their viewpoints in a very simplistic fashion ( like say humans are dicks elves are l33t! ) as a fact and I despise such people because in general they are just one step short from calling me a psychopath for my viewpoints ( Oh and I've been called for making certain choices in my RPGs ) and I don't consider them as holding intelligent views. Respect is earned not given freely.

However I do have a respect for people who do make strong sound arguments for their beliefs even though I don't necessarily agree with them. I for instance strongly disagree with Knight on certain issues and we have trashed each other quite a lot of times in the past, on these very forums actually to the point there moderator warnings issued, however we do respect one another a great deal despite us getting into what could be classified as flame wars and even more so for Veleda ( who I might add has Iorveth as her cannon path ) with whom I have clashed, still clash and will clash on many issues because we have VERY different viewpoints. Yet I've had Veleda on my friend list for years now on Social Bioware as I have with Knight.

There are quite a few people here who think that good solid beliefs backed by strong and harsh arguments are a bad thing, labeling them as immature or personal attacks. I disagree. I've had many such arguments over the years with highly intelligent and knowledgeable people and it has forced me to bring stronger arguments to the table, to argue for my opinion better. It's a mental challenge and exercise from which I believe I've gained a great deal as a person.

I am aware I've been close to getting banned on these very forums, but that I've taken as another challenge in how I bring my arguments forward as I seek to respect the forum rules.


Am I stubborn asshole who pisses a lot of people off? Absolutely. I make no illusions on how people view me but as Cao Cao, one of the three great leaders of the Three Kingdoms, one said: I have never given a fuck of how others view me in a negative light. I'm not here for a popularity contest.

"Humans thrive on conflict" Conflict of ideas, beliefs, principles and so on.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin Moroianu said:

However I do have a respect for people who do make strong sound arguments for their beliefs even though I don't necessarily agree with them. I for instance strongly disagree with Knight on certain issues and we have trashed each other quite a lot of times in the past, on these very forums actually to the point there moderator warnings issued, however we do respect one another a great deal despite us getting into what could be classified as flame wars ›››

Remember the days when 10 pages in a BSN thread would essentially be a back and forth between us haha. I would say it was almost epic.