[Bloth]

Okay i'm having a tootle through the Witcher 1 again, because...hell why not it's fucking gorgeous, anyway on looking for information on the Swamp tower I head out to the swamp first instead of acquiring the grimoires through old Golan. Now it seems that Gramps has an almost intimate knowledge of the tower (it's actually the "I hate droughts" brickmaker who advises me to see him, always thought there was more to that comment) and its defenses and Vaska advises me to ask him, refusing to divulge her knowledge before he does.

So I do Gramps grand tour around the swamp, stopping at the homes of the rich and fantastical, during which he displays a damn lot of knowledge for a simple old cannibal. From the Vran to the uses of power. Eventually parting at Meliteles shrine, I meet him again at his charming domicile and question him thoroughly on the Mages tower, whereupon he reveals a wealth of knowledge that does not seem to be covered in his copy of "Ain Soph Aur".

Is he Alzur or one of the mages apprentices? Was Vaska Alzurs lover who caused his damnation? Her Sephirot and bitterness seems to hint at this. Could the two of them have been lovers, and caused the old mages dowfall?

Why after five years of playing am I still finding new stuff in the game? I know the answer to that one, because it's a bloody quality product.

[slimgrin]

Damn, I didn't think of that..gramps being the mage?

[etainne]

Gramps has always been tight lipped for me so I look forward to his one day divulging more information, But... I always just figured that Vaska is the woman that caused the poor alchemist's/sorcerer's problems long ago. The way people hop into bed in TWEE I wouldn't be surprised by a Gramps+Vaska union in the past. Quality yep, played TWEE something like 15 times now and i still get new stuff now and then. Ain't it grand? Gotta love some of the things about this game and it's sequel (s).

[Bloth]

Yeah it's kind of mind blowing, his control over the echinopsae when you fight him is also bloody weird, they're creatures of curse and undeath. Alzurs research seemed to be almost Frankenstein like in its wish to animate dead matter, so I wonder whether Gramps mastered the art of bringing back spirits, through devouring their flesh. Creepy.

[Schmooples]

I can't quite remember anymore what he said, but he does have information reaching back in history, not just the knowleadge of now and there.

But I just always end his feastings and he defends himself only with his axe (plus the echinops?), rather poorly at that.

[Bloth]

Could his powers have been broken when the tower fell? He might be a faded remnant of himself, cursed to a ghoulish nightmare existence, haunting the scene of his triumph and tragedy.

[etainne]

I have never ever killed Gramps yet. It never seemed like there would be a benefit from it, now You both have me wondering if I would find him more advantageous dead. Ah well, maybe I can gird myself for that full order side run that I have never done yet, and see if I can just hack and slay everyone for the "fun" of it- but i will need some kind of mind altering medication to treat my trauma and depression when I do

Still, does Gramps say more if you try to kill him? I always just figured it wouldn't be much of a fight and wasn't sure there would be that many XP from it.

[Schmooples]

Blothulfur said:

Yeah it's kind of mind blowing, his control over the echinopsae when you fight him is also bloody weird, they're creatures of curse and undeath. Alzurs research seemed to be almost Frankenstein like in its wish to animate dead matter, so I wonder whether Gramps mastered the art of bringing back spirits, through devouring their flesh. Creepy. ›››

I just wonder if the fight has been made harder on purpose, or does gramps truly have plant "friends".

[Schmooples]

etainne said:

I have never ever killed Gramps yet. It never seemed like there would be a benefit from it, now You both have me wondering if I would find him more advantageous dead. Ah well, maybe I can gird myself for that full order side run that I have never done yet, and see if I can just hack and slay everyone for the "fun" of it- but i will need some kind of mind altering medication to treat my trauma and depression when I do

Still, does Gramps say more if you try to kill him? I always just figured it wouldn't be much of a fight and wasn't sure there would be that many XP from it. ›››

He pretty much says that he will be much more helpfull alive and thats it, if you say -i will end you- I have never left him alive, so...

Well he is one of the few who can give the formula for perfume, but that can be get from others also, so I just whack the monster as soon I find his true nature. He also gives other formulae but they are even easier to acquire from elsewhere.

[etainne]

Blothulfur said:

Could his powers have been broken when the tower fell? He might be a faded remnant of himself, cursed to a ghoulish nightmare existence, haunting the scene of his triumph and tragedy. ›››

seems there was a hint about the 'ley lines' and you could be on to something there, things being out of kilter and maybe just a side effect from loss of vigor with age, yea it's not out of the realm of possibility. Seems to me both he and Vaska are stuck there for unknown reasons. I can't imagine they wanted to stay in the slummy swamps by design, but perhaps something held them both there. If he was Alzur, and the Frankinsteinian experiments were the cause of his cannibalism, that would maybe be a just reward for vivisection and trying to create life. OOps maybe he started with good intentions but we see how it all turns out in the end huh?

[Bloth]

I usually don't kill Gramps myself but all that extra dialogue about the tower made me do a quick save and see what happens when I do off him, there's no extra dialogue of import.

The echinopse thing is strange, they're the spirits of the vengeful dead risen up from the grave through warped and twisted roots, as we see in the outskirts where Odo's brother rests poorly under the soil, mourned by his hound. So why would they serve Gramps, unless he has some fell power over them. Mind you could be just to increase the fights difficulty, as Schmooples says.

[Schmooples]

" 'Echinopsae are monstrous plants born of curses which grow in places where terrible crimes have been committed if the crime in question was never atoned for. The beasts try to take their vengeance on criminals, but they do not spare the lives of innocents who haplessly enter their territory.' "

- http://witcher.wikia.com/wiki/Echinops (Journal Bestiary Entry)

[Bloth]

Hope they bring these back in the Witcher 3, really original idea, gets the old imaginative juices flowing. I just love the idea of spiteful corpses slowly poisoning the soil and flora around them with their hatred, until they rise up enmeshed in a tangle of monstrous roots to tear apart the living and spit forth their barbs of malice. Give me a reason to use Igni as well.

[Corylea]

Interesting questions, Blothulfur!

Vaska states clearly that the mage is dead, so Gramps can't be the mage. But she also says that the mage lived with an apprentice. I'm wondering if Gramps could be that apprentice. It would explain why he knows so much but doesn't seem able to actually DO anything.

And I thought the implication that Vaska was the woman in the mage's life was very clear; I didn't think this was a question or left hanging. She has the card.

[jaxboxdude]

Vaska is the woman. She tells that the woman made a magic tarot set then gives you a tarot card of the tower or golem(can't remember which) saying "I won't need this anymore"(or something close to that)

[Corylea]

jaxboxdude said:

Vaska is the woman. She tells that the woman made a magic tarot set then gives you a tarot card of the tower or golem(can't remember which) saying "I won't need this anymore"(or something close to that) ›››

Here's the conversation, copied and pasted by opening the conversation file in Djinni:

Geralt: Kalkstein, an alchemist, claims you know about the mage from the tower and the guard.

Vaska: A powerful sorcerer once lived in the swamp, an apprentice his only companion. All changed when a woman entered his life.

G: A fairy-tale beginning...

V: But the end differs, for a wicked woman she was. He fulfilled all her wishes, and she took advantage of his might.

G: Who was she?

V: Unimportant.

G: I'm listening.

V: Blind love spelled the mage's demise. He called upon forces he could not control and died.

G: What about the guard?

V: The mage's lover could tell fortunes and the mage created a deck of extraordinary Tarot cards - he illustrated a future event on each card.

G: And?

V: Golems guarded the mage's dwelling. Those spared the ravages of time survive at the cemetery, where they remain motionless.

G: One of them is the guard?

V: Yes, the most powerful golem acted as Sentry. The Tower card depicts how the golem can be revived. In turn, this will open the tower anew.

The conversation splits here, depending on the status of the quests Vaska has asked Geralt to do for her.


If Geralt hasn't finished the quests for Vaska, then:

G: Seems I need to find this card. Would you know where?

V: The apprentice stole the card and made two copies. I doubt they ever left the swamp.

G: I'll ask around.


If Geralt HAS finished the quests for Vaska, then after her last line, above, she adds,

V: Take this card. I no longer need it.

[Dragon'sDream]

Hold on a second - she refers to the mage's lover as a "wicked woman", could she really be implying that about herself? She certainly doesn't fit the bill of a wicked woman. Also, when did the obsession with the "water lords" begin? If she was in fact the mage's lover, you would think she would have a greater understand of who they really are (hint - they aren't lords of anything).

[Kindo]

Dragon said:

Hold on a second - she refers to the mage's lover as a "wicked woman", could she really be implying that about herself? She certainly doesn't fit the bill of a wicked woman. Also, when did the obsession with the "water lords" begin? If she was in fact the mage's lover, you would think she would have a greater understand of who they really are (hint - they aren't lords of anything). ›››

It definitely fits the bill if she has become aware of her own wickedness, through the worship of the Water Lords. Then it's a common theme that the person in question completely separates themselves from who they were before; referring to themselves in third person like that, confusing those around them. There are a lot of things in this world that can drive a person crazy.

[Bloth]

Considering old Vaska will gift you with the book "Hymns of madness and despair" it's possible that she's worshipping something very real, Dagon himself.

[Dragon'sDream]

Both interesting points.

*sigh* subtlety in games...so underused I cant even notice them anymore .