[Emberstrife]

The concept of an ARPG where combat actually requires thought had been long forgotten on PC - in most RPGs released in recent years (Witcher 1 included), the only "difficult" fights were ones you went into without the right gear or stats, rather than without player skill. Suddenly, here it is - CDPR boldly discarded Witcher 1's dice-driven combat and handed over complete control, and responsibility, to the player.

I found it to be brutally unfair and unforgiving at first - the first fights the game thrust me in (the tower battle and ballista brawl), my ass was handed back to me on a platter on Normal at least a dozen times. Then I learned that I could - and was expected to - dodge attacks and circle enemies to stab them in the back. That I could drink potions to improve my chances, use Yrden and Axii for crowd control, use Quen to safely land risky attacks, and so on. Soon enough I found myself completing the prologue and the entire game on Hard, then completing it twice on Dark Mode (without upgrading Quen), and enjoying every second of what I previously thought were grossly unbalanced fights.

The game has been made easier since I first played. You can now parry without Vigor, interrupt queued attack combos, enjoy more responsive controls and in general easier combat. However even back then, people figured out how to survive the game's biggest brawls and hardest bossfights, stringing chains of kills without taking any damage.

Witcher 2's combat is hard, but it is fair. It has a clean set of rules to learn and follow, and many ways to approach most fights. Once you spend some time learning the game's mechanics, even Dark Mode will not pose you with real difficulty. If learning is not your thing and you want to enjoy an easy, challenge-free experience - by all means, that's what Easy mode was made for.

[omerbu1]

Actually I liked every part of the Fighting system except from the constant need of rolling.
I would be more than happy if there was a "Dodge" button which has to be pressed at the right time instead of rolling non-stop on the floor.
because I read some of the books and rolling really isn't a "Witchery" technique.

I really Hope the CD Projekt will put at Dodging system in The Witcher 3

[Lightice]

Quote

Actually I liked every part of the Fighting system except from the constant need of rolling.
I would be more than happy if there was a "Dodge" button which has to be pressed at the right time instead of rolling non-stop on the floor.

Rolling isn't remotely as necessary as people make it to be outside the earliest parts of the game. You just get used to it easily, and forget to develop other tactics. There's only a couple of battles where it's actually required. When you got both omnidirectional parry and attack, use Signs to your advantage and keep the enemies from surrounding you, the roll just doesn't have that great impact in most battles.

[omerbu1]

Lightice said:

Rolling isn't remotely as necessary as people make it to be outside the earliest parts of the game. You just get used to it easily, and forget to develop other tactics. There's only a couple of battles where it's actually required. When you got both omnidirectional parry and attack, use Signs to your advantage and keep the enemies from surrounding you, the roll just doesn't have that great impact in most battles. ›››

If you can explain more deeply how to avoid the rolling I will be grateful becasue the fact that if I don't roll people with spikes pull my guts out is really annoying.

[bcheero]

omerbu1 said:

If you can explain more deeply how to avoid the rolling I will be grateful becasue the fact that if I don't roll people with spikes pull my guts out is really annoying. ›››

Use Yrden to trap one enemy. While he's immobilized use a bomb or take out a guy near him and then use Axii to control an enemy. That's a sample strategy I just thought of that didn't include rolling. Now monsters...especially Nekkers... I suggest you use Dancing Star or other bombs.

[Emberstrife]

bcheero said:

Use Yrden to trap one enemy. While he's immobilized use a bomb or take out a guy near him and then use Axii to control an enemy. That's a sample strategy I just thought of that didn't include rolling. Now monsters...especially Nekkers... I suggest you use Dancing Star or other bombs. ›››

I'll expand on that.

Cast Quen on yourself. Put down fire or freeze traps before engaging enemies. Put down Yrden and trap one enemy. Control another enemy with Axii. Throw a stun bomb at a bunch of enemies and one-hit any enemy that gets stunned. Throw Dragon's Dream then Dancing Star to set a mob of enemies on fire. Throw Red Haze at a crowd for area-effect instant Axii. Throw daggers at any enemy below 30% health.

There are many ways to reduce a mob to a 1v1 duel without rolling. Once you have a 1v1, use Riposte to 2-3 hit kill any enemy without taking damage.

Essentially, you need to roll a lot only in the Prologue. Afterwards, if you do not specialize in Swordsmanship, you can win most fights without rolling at all - with upgraded Signs or with upgraded bombs/traps/etc. Witcher 2 lets you choose your own combat style - you just need to decide how you want to avoid others' sword blows. You can do it by incapacitating and/or immobilizing enemies(Signs/bombs), or you can roll out of their range. It's your choice.

[omerbu1]

I will try all of these in my next playthrough,thanks
but I will still more than happy if CDPR will include a dodging system and more emphasizing on counter-attacking and counter-evading.

[tonnactus]

Emberstrife said:

Witcher 2's combat is hard, but it is fair. ›››

It is fair???

Sorry, i have a different understanding of the word fair then. When my quen,even upgraded,is canceled by Letho with one aard cast or a bomb,this isnt what i call fair. But his quen couldnt be destroyed even with multiple bombs.

Or that a dragon is only vulnerable on the ground, but could still do damage when the thing flies(not a problem,but annoying,because in my game it happens more then 50 percent of the fight) or is under the plattform.

Its also not really fair that the game force Geralt to sheath his weapons in cutscenes,but the enemies have their weapons already drawn after it.(got slaughtered because of that multiple times/only pausing helps)

The combat is still enjoyable,but is far away from beeing good and fair.

[Wichat]

It's fair because it challenges you. Take it easy!

[tonnactus]

Wichat said:

It's fair because it challenges you. Take it easy! ›››

Then fake difficulty would be also fair...(and The Witcher has a decent amount of that)

[spacehamsterZH]

I'll give you the problem with combat sequences starting with Geralt's sword sheathed - that's something basically everyone will agree is stupid. But all the other stuff you listed are just bossfight conditions you don't like because they make the fights more difficult, I'm sorry.

[tonnactus]

spacehamsterZH said:

I'll give you the problem with combat sequences starting with Geralt's sword sheathed - that's something basically everyone will agree is stupid. But all the other stuff you listed are just bossfight conditions you don't like because they make the fights more difficult, I'm sorry. ›››

Well, the Witcher is the first game i know that make a dragon completly invulnerable when in the air in addition of having a giant healthpool and the ability to onehit me from any angle.

[secondchildren]

tonnactus said:

Well, the Witcher is the first game i know that make a dragon completly invulnerable when in the air in addition of having a giant healthpool and the ability to onehit me from any angle. ›››

You didn't play many games in your life, did you?

[spacehamsterZH]

1) Videogame bosses have cycled through invulnerability phases for as long as there have been bosses in videogames. In shoot 'em ups in the 80s, it was the fact that the bright vulnerable spot wasn't always exposed, here it's the fact that because Geralt doesn't have a bow, he can't hit the dragon in flight. This is neither new nor unfair. It's a boss that doesn't always take damage. There have been thousands like this.

2) Bosses have more health than regular enemies and deal more damage. That's why they're bosses.

3) The dragon can only one-hit you from one angle, which is when you're standing directly in front of it and it lunges forward. Even on Dark difficulty. So don't stand directly in front of it.

The easiest way to kill the dragon, I've found, is to bring lots of bombs (Grapeshot seems to work well, but I haven't tried all of them) and just throw those from a safe distance. If it turns out your bombs don't completely deplete the dragon's health, circle around and attack with your sword from the side. NEVER from the front. Stick and run, like with everything in the game. Two hits at the most, and then you roll away. Hope that helps.

[tonnactus]

spacehamsterZH said:

1) Videogame bosses have cycled through invulnerability phases for as long as there have been bosses in videogames. In shoot 'em ups in the 80s, it was the fact that the bright vulnerable spot wasn't always exposed, here it's the fact that because Geralt doesn't have a bow, he can't hit the dragon in flight.

The witcher has knives and bombs, introduced in the tuterial as options to deal with distant opponents like mages. And the dragon not even fly away at all to not be able to be hit with a sword. Neither in Skyrim or Dragon Age i remember Dragons to be invulerable. And i compare The Witcher to those games(these are roleplaying games,right?), not to shoot em ups in the 80s where those things were done to increase the otherwise small playtime.

Quote

The easiest way to kill the dragon, I've found, is to bring lots of bombs (Grapeshot seems to work well, but I haven't tried all of them) and just throw those from a safe distance.

Thats already done. Still tedious that the dragon more then half of the time basicly troll the player when in the air or my favourite,is below the platform and tries to hit with his tail.

[Wichat]

Well , if you really defeat the dragon with bombs you'd need the lost potion Blizzard (btw, I miss it in TW2) to target such a fast Boss, and seriously... knives against a Dragon??? Saskia is not a Skyrim's Dragon and in DAO you have the help of your freinds and the catapults... And who's said that Dragons must equal at every RPG??

[tonnactus]

Wichat said:

Well , if you really defeat the dragon with bombs you'd need the lost potion Blizzard (btw, I miss it in TW2) to target such a fast Boss, and seriously... knives against a Dragon??? ›››

Knives work as good as bombs when the thing is on the ground. Yrden to traip the tail like in fight against the kairan would be nice. And if knives and bombs are not fast enough when the Dragon is in the air,then, Igni.

[DRYADNERIED]

tonnactus said:

The witcher has knives and bombs, introduced in the tuterial as options to deal with distant opponents like mages. And the dragon not even fly away at all to not be able to be hit with a sword. Neither in Skyrim or Dragon Age i remember Dragons to be invulerable. And i compare The Witcher to those games(these are roleplaying games,right?), not to shoot em ups in the 80s where those things were done to increase the otherwise small playtime.
›››

Well, you're SUPPOSED to kill the dragons in Skyrim, so many of the dragons come down a bit (too) easily, yay mods for fixing that, whereas this dragon is truly a boss-level fight. The issues I have with combat now comes from switching from other RPG's to TW2 without giving my brain a chance to swap commands. My only real wish was a way to make the UI more keyboard-friendly--any suggestions would be much appreciated in that respect. Other combat suggestions you guys have given are interesting--I tend to be a bit too traditionally sword-driven and am working to branch into magic and alchemy even more, though remembering to drink potions BEFORE battle continues to trip me up on occasion!

[dragonbird]

I remember it taking 30, 40 minutes to kill the dragon in DA:O the first time, and that was with a full team and a lot of NPC helpers, and a LOT more restrictions on how you could attack it at the various points in the fight. The same in the late unlamented DA2 - a long, slow battle of attrition taking it down one HP at a time, with periods when it was totally impossible to hit with any weapon, but could still attack you.

Boss fights are supposed to be challenging.

[Dragon'sDream]

dragonbird said:

Boss fights are supposed to be challenging. ›››

Yes, and dragons are supposed to be near unstoppable. It's kind of a staple of RPG's since back in the day when they existed only on table tops. The strongest enemy in a fantasy game - be it a card game, a board game, or a video game - is the mighty dragon. It's the one enemy that exists purely to test (and frustrate) you. The satisfaction after downing one...best feeling in the whole game .