To a certain extent, I think we're over-reacting. The PP gives the principle
demographic and yes, that's probably male. The fact that it says only "17+" and doesn't give the actual age breakdown simply means that CDPR isn't releasing all of its confidential data in this presentation, just some of it.
Ladies...this is just a reality, not a snub to the female fans of The Witcher, whom we all adore. I can all but guarantee many more men then women bought TW2.
You're probably correct, but no, you're not in any position to guarantee anything. The only people who can do that are those who have access to the data. Anything else is just extrapolation from your own personal experience.
I'm not about to embark on a crusade here, *BUT* how in the hell would you market TW2 to women? Remember, this is coming from the guy who plays female in all his RPG's when given the chance.- male badass protagonist.- lotsa sex with pretty ladies, some of them whores.- set in the 1200's when women were met with suspicion not respect. I know it's fiction, but the influence of historical reality weighs heavily on the flavor of this game.* All this said, I respect the women on this site, and of course the people Cory listed. My experience in both Witcher games would have been lacking without their contributions.
Women like badass male protagonists. Look at TV, Movies, novels. And if you're a straight woman playing a game with a good male protagonist you get to see him ALL OF THE TIME, not just in a couple of cut-scenes. And if you're looking at fantasy (the personal kind, not the elves and magic kind), males may see themselves as the protagonist, females see themselves as being WITH the protagonist.
Let's just remember one important fact: Bioware and its vocal fan base. I think we all know this tale: the developer who tries to please everyone, so they end up shoehorning politically correct bits into their games. It all comes across as superficial, forced. Sorry, but in my humble opinion CDPR's vision is priority, at the expense of everything else.
As others have said, this isn't about changing the game itself to pander to the tastes of any one group of fans, it's about marketing. The game's just fine the way it is.
So... if there's an awesome mod or website or basically anything creative happening here, there's usually a woman behind it. Are there more women around here than men for that to be a reality, or do we just have all of the creative ones?Not a group to be ignored, at any rate. You take the women out of the equation and the entire fandom basically shrivels and dies.17+ is such a non-specific criteria that it allows for both younger gamers and older gamers, like puzzles that say "for ages 12-90!". Why not just ignore adding that "male" part altogether if you're already being totally non-specific like that? It makes no sense to draw the line there, honestly.
I agree. The bullet-point is deliberately vague because it doesn't breakdown the age further, so it would have been better to avoid the "male" tag too. And it would have avoided this little firestorm
And would anyone be complaining if it weren't for the '17 yr old male' comment from the RED's? Let's look at what they produce and judge from that, not some sales strategy statistic.
Agreed. But call it "feedback" instead. Just driving home the fact that we're here CDPR - please make sure you don't ignore us.
People, don't get to upset about this presentation.Is just a presentation for salesmen and marketing people.It must fit in theirs idea of how a sale is done.This is the material to sale the game to a salesman as his next job.If a superficial look to the game tells them its target demographics is 17+ male gamers there is no point to make a presentation telling them otherwise.
As above. But I hope that they're giving more info than that behind the scenes - not just on the gender breakdown, but also on the age breakdown.
Quite frankly, I'd have thought that the information was necessary. "Male gamers aged 17+" is probably a saturated market, so you should be looking at the breakdown to see if there are demographics who are interested, but not saturated, and target your marketing at them too. Which may be "males aged 45+" or "females aged 20-40", I don't know.
Again, it can't be emphasised enough - this is about marketing, not about changing the game itself to pander to any one demographic.
So what do you and your friends think of their portrayal of women in the game? I can tell you what many people on this side of the pond think: they are sexist and should be more balanced in their representations of sexuality and gender differences. Is that what you want?
I think that some people just look for things to get upset about (and, doing my own bit of stereotyping here, maybe it IS more common on your side of the pond). Since they're determined to find something offensive, if they don't find something big, they get upset about trivia, whether it's the amount of cleavage Saskia is showing, or the fact that the Chinese in DX3 miss out the wrong words when speaking imperfect English (yes, I read that on one blog).
There's nothing in TW2 that I find remotely offensive to women. The "sex card" aspect in TW1 was mildly demeaning, but not much. It is not demeaning to depict women as sex workers in a game world where it was one of the few available "professions", whether it's 13th Century pseudo-Europe or 21st Century pseudo-China.
Well i do hope you were discussing how powerful and independent the women in TW2 are. Because TW2 has a far better representation of women than any Bioware game. Shit, the sorceresses outwitted and manipulated KINGS to their own ends, and Saskia was a damn legend of Vergen.
I just cannot stand the stigma that TW2 has gotten in relation to women. It's simply not true. Would you rather the whores to be discarded from the game, and the Dwarve's foul mouths to be silenced? When devs start to try and be everything to everyone, the game loses realism and has superficial and forced elements.
Also agreed. See points above.
As for the marketing, be realistic. Please. Even Bioware, the "revolutionary" company in everyone's rights, markets to male gamers. Always have. Only now with that one femshep trailer did they somewhat stray from the formula, but EVERYTHING else was marketed to male gamers. That's just the reality of business. That's how it has to be.
Agreed up to the final two sentences. A business that looks only to their principle demographic, especially if that's a saturated market, is blinding themselves to the possibility of market growth by ignoring the other demographics. Fact: Women play games now. Probable fact, which should be checkable by CDPR's marketing people: Women like badass heroes and like TW2. Business Opportunity: Exploit this market by targeting some of the PR at them. Let's see some sexy Geralty/Iorveth promos
And, once more for good measure, none of this is a suggestion that they change the game itself and give us a Geraldine lead, or the opportunity to furnish his room at the inn with pretty pink flounced fabrics, or reduce the number of sexual conquests he can make. It's about marketing what they're already doing.