[Vandergrift]

Corylea said:

This is either a REALLY bad joke, or you've taken leave of your senses.

You want to tell me to my face that women aren't interested in The Witcher? I played it before YOU did. I probably played it half a dozen times before you did. But I don't exist, huh?

If what you said is NOT a joke, then it's really offensive. I am not kidding.

›››

It is not about if they are interested, it is about numbers. How many female gamers interested in RPG's. It is about profit of company, no profit no games.
Yes we have more and more females playing video games, and its great. They say that the people who buy their games are male, period. CDP sell The Witcher 2 in this period.
Sadly here in Poland we lack of womans playing, really.

[Dragon'sDream]

Vandergrift said:

It is not about if they are interested, it is about numbers. How many female gamers interested in RPG's. It is about profit of company, no profit no games.
Yes we have more and more females playing video games, and its great. They say that the people who buy their games are male, period. CDP sell The Witcher 2 in this period.
Sadly here in Poland we lack of womans playing, really. ›››

You want to talk about profit and companies survival, fine. Did you ever consider that there is an entire ocean of gamers that has gone completely untapped because they are women? How much profit does CDPR stand to gain if they were to attract just as many female gamers as male gamers?

The argument "women dont play games" is not an excuse. Women dont play games because we push them away at every turn! Of course they dont, and they never will so long as we continue believing that we own the industry, like it's our birthright or something.

[Guy N'wah]

I don't know statistics for Poland. But the statistics for the US don't bear out the claims that you must attract an audience of young men to have a successful game.

In the US:

The average age of gameplayers is 37, 29 percent are over 50, and 42 percent are female.

The average age of game buyers is 41, and 48 percent are female. Presumably the difference is accounted for by parents buying games for their children. 45 percent of parents play games (computer or console) with their children.

So the old expectation that it is profitable to cater to an audience of exclusively young men is either already invalid or rapidly failing, and it is time to quit pretending that this is the only way to market a game.

"Essential Facts About the Computer and Video Game Industry" (ESA, 2011)

[Purpleknight]

C'mon ladies and gentlemen, I think we're pulling this too far, the important fact is that putting "Mature +17 male RPG Gamer" instead of only "Mature +17 RPG Gamer" is simply too unnecesary. With only one word out you are addresing correctly to ALL possible RPG gamers.

Peace, love and respect

[Corylea]

Purpleknight said:

putting "Mature +17 male RPG Gamer" instead of only "Mature +17 RPG Gamer" is simply too unnecesary. With only one word out you are addresing correctly to ALL possible RPG gamers. ›››

Exactly!

[gregski]

Purpleknight said:

C'mon ladies and gentlemen, I think we're pulling this too far, the important fact is that putting "Mature +17 male RPG Gamer" instead of only "Mature +17 RPG Gamer" is simply too unnecesary. With only one word out you are addresing correctly to ALL possible RPG gamers.

Peace, love and respect ›››

I agree that it would make things simple.

But please bear in mind that we are talking about marketing plan here, trying to describe reality by statistics and demographics. It's artificial from the very start. It's just good practice to try to narrow the demographics as much as you can while building a plan like this, even though the very person behind it might not agree on a personal level with excluding certain groups from the target group. But it's about making choices, I don't think any marketing manager or CEO would accept a plan that doesn't try to define the target group as detailed as possible.

We don't know what was this "17+ male gamer" criteria based on. Witcher 1 sales data or some other surveys? Or maybe CDPR just felt that the game would appeal mostly to male gamers and are actually positively surprised how well this game is received by the female audience?

I don't see this as an example of discrimination, it's just a business, marketing language they are using. There are many examples of products appealing to both genders, but actually marketed more towards women, because there is greater possibility of buying decision by a female customer regarding this particular product.

Don't get me wrong, I'm really hopeful that more and more women will play games. So other guys don't go through the hell I'm going through every time my wife tells me the most important news of the day right in the middle of my Battfefield 3 session and I can't hear jack because it's explosions everywhere!.

[Kitadol]

CDPR didn't say it as in "we won't make the game enjoyable for women", they were just being realistic.

It's probable that 90% of the people who bought W2 were men, if not more.

[siklara]

eskiMoe said:

Better get used to it. ›››

Whoa man, really? Cooking Mama? That was pretty low, I didn't expect this from you of all people. You might as well add "go back 2 the kitchen". I didn't really feel offended by Marcin's statistics because meh, it's just wrong statistics and I'm sure he didn't mean to offend anybody, but I just hate this kind of generalization when people claim most women only play games like these. How do you know? Yes, these are obviously aimed at a female audience, but what if I (and most women) don't care about these at all and play games like The Witcher 1-2 instead, does that make us manly or messed up in the head?

[Dragon'sDream]

siklara said:

what if I (and most women) don't care about these at all and play games like The Witcher 1-2 instead, does that make us manly or messed up in the head? ›››

No, it makes you awesome. I wish I could meet a girl that enjoyed TW1/2 as much as me .

[eskiMoe]

Vandergrift said:

It is not about if they are interested, it is about numbers. How many female gamers interested in RPG's. It is about profit of company, no profit no games. ›››

This. I didn't mean it as offensive at all. But those games I mentioned (Wii fit and Cooking Mama) have sold millions of copies. So statistically speaking women are more interested in exercising and making virtual sammiches than playing mature, nonlinear action RPGs. And really. I'm fine with that.

Also, I only see women getting interested in games by CDPR if..

1. They falsely advertise their games to women.

2. They take the women audience into consideration during game development (and ruin the game for us men)

So yeah. I hope not.

siklara said:

Whoa man, really? Cooking Mama? That was pretty low, I didn't expect this from you of all people. You might as well add "go back 2 the kitchen". ›››

"The original Cooking Mama has sold more than 500,000 copies in the United States as of August 15, 2007,[8] and has sold more than 1 million copies in PAL regions.[9] As of January 30, 2008, the series has sold more than 2.6 million copies worldwide."

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Cooking_Mama

To be honest. I kinda find that pretty hilaaaarious

[.Max]

There's a comment here from RPS:

http://www.rockpaper...e-drm-says-ceo/

[eskiMoe]

Corylea said:

I played it before YOU did.

Actually that should not be possible.

I preordered The Witcher 1 and started playing it @ October 26th, 2007. The game was released in the US 4 days later. (October 30th)

[227]

There's also a Joystiq article about it that includes an interesting quote:

"We release the game. It's cracked in two hours, it was no time for Witcher 2. What really surprised me is that the pirates didn't use the GOG version, which was not protected. They took the SecuROM retail version, cracked it and said 'we cracked it' -- meanwhile there's a non-secure version with a simultaneous release. You'd think the GOG version would be the one floating around."

That's absolutely insane.

[▫ Dona ▫]

227 said:

There's also a Joystiq article about it that includes an interesting quote:

"We release the game. It's cracked in two hours, it was no time for Witcher 2. What really surprised me is that the pirates didn't use the GOG version, which was not protected. They took the SecuROM retail version, cracked it and said 'we cracked it' -- meanwhile there's a non-secure version with a simultaneous release. You'd think the GOG version would be the one floating around."

That's absolutely insane. ›››

But part of the fun is hacking the code and saying "I did it", is it not?

[gregski]

D o n a said:

But part of the fun is hacking the code and saying "I did it", is it not? ›››

Yep, so they can all go "OMG I'M A HAXXXOR"

[227]

D o n a said:

But part of the fun is hacking the code and saying "I did it", is it not? ›››

Is that it? The whole thing is like a bunch of clowns have stretch limousines with complimentary champagne and they instead choose to ride around in a clown car for kicks. Totally insane.

Makes you wonder about future games if they're never planning on using DRM again. If there's no challenge, will many of the prominent uploaders just... not upload? It seems doubtful, but you kind of have to wonder how things will play out after reading something like that.

[▫ Dona ▫]

227 said:

Makes you wonder about future games if they're never planning on using DRM again. If there's no challenge, will many of the prominent uploaders just... not upload? It seems doubtful, but you kind of have to wonder how things will play out after reading something like that.

YES! That is the secret big corporations don't want you to know! They care about their fans so much, they always make sure to put more and more DRM just to keep them happy and entertained. No point in removing the protection, gotta keep the hackers on their toes!

[arkray]

D o n a said:

But part of the fun is hacking the code and saying "I did it", is it not? ›››

Exactly! The scene won't upload a drm free game, the 'competition' takes place into cracking the game.

That said I'm also female and I've been following the witcher game since it was planned as an isometric game and I must tell they shouldn't have added that 'male' word in there. I second all that Corylea said.

[Schmooples]

Nice presentation. It showed one "fact" that seems constant in it-business. If project leader isn't highly experienced there is always too little time for testing and corrections.

[grregg]

Memo to CDR. Be aware that making your marketing strategy public is equivalent to painting a bulls-eye on your back. If you would like to share your marketing wisdom with someone, sit down for a bit and wait until you come back to your senses.