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[EPILOGUE] Ending cutscene / cinematic discussion
28.12.2010 @ 21:03 #862
Greetings,
I just registered because I truly think the ending is worth discussing, and I am glad this thing is still going on after a couple of years.
I have to confess I didn't finish the original Witcher, in a way it wasn't making a lot of sense to me and the story felt a little broken (English version). I did love the atmosphere, the story, the characters, so I went ahead and read both books published in English so far (The Last Wish, Blood of Elves) and although the translations are not *that* good, I can tell Sapkowski is a great author and I fell in love with the saga. I even watched and enjoyed the Polish miniseries! In any case, I bought the Enhanced Edition a few months ago when it was around 20 dollars and now I regret not having finished it sooner!
Anyway, on to this matter. Just like a previous poster I read a bunch of comments but there is no way I could read them all, so here are my thoughts which may reflect something already posted:
1. I have no doubt Jacques is Alvin, the dwimeritium amulet plus Alvin's jump over time and space (as he is Aen Hen Ichaer, just like Cirilla in books) never let me thought otherwise and I'm pretty much surprised someone can be confused here. And when I've red someone thinks it's Emhyr var Emreis, nilfgaardian emperor, I was literally rotfl'ing. Emhyr, whom king Foltest, king Radovid, entire Temerian/Redanian intelligence and probably a big part of Temerian/Redanian nobles have seen at least once in their lives, yet no one recognized him? That's brilliant, really ^^
I also think that is the most "realistic" conclusion, given the evidence we have at hand. I even figured it out before killing him, I kept thinking of how Triss said he could have travelled in time and I was afraid I would be killing Alvin. However, let's not forget that the premise of the game's story is that Geralt somehow lost his memory, so there is a chance he might have known the Grand Master before and told him things about his visions, that reflect what he told Alvin because, after all, it is his personality emerging from amnesia. Also I suppose there is more than one dimeritium amulet in the world and that some people (i.e. sources) wear them to control/supress their abilities.
2. The asassin is clearly a witcher: eyes, reflexes, potion belt etc. Different combat style (different than Kaer Morhen origin?), different preferred weapon (In Kaer Morhen, Vesemir is always teaching witchers how to use one-and-a-half handed sword, simply called "witcher's sword" in game) and not using signs (doesn't feel it's necessary or simply don't know any?) shouldn't block the conclusion that it's a witcher from outside Kaer Morhen, trained differently. The fact that a place like this is not mentioned in any book doesn't mean it doesn't exist; in fact, the idea about him being mutated using stolen witcher's formulas is linked to the game main plot, and besides the short time period to be able to preform such mutation (someone accurately pointed it out earlier) it's quite a good idea. Now: no, the assassin doesn't look like Lambert (for me, not a bit), and no (another rotfl here) it's not Geralt "from the future".
Yes, I also agree that the assassin is a witcher from another school, and also not Geralt himself. It might also be a mutant created by Salamandra as you mentioned
And what if the Grandmaster is not Alvin, but he is also a source capable of visions and "time travel"? Maybe he, too, was given a dimeritium amulet in his youth. Maybe he met with Geralt sometime before the game story and Geralt gave him a speech on his visions and his power.
Maybe I'm looking too hard for alternative explanations because having killed Alvin kind of sucks, but that is probably it. Otherwise, why would "Jacques" use witcher-style magic? Didn't he use Aard to repel Geralt's steel sword at the end?
Yes, same here. I also wanted an account of what happened with all the choices I made, which somehow is explained in the final passage read by Dandelion but only makes reference to the major political conflict. I wanted to know how other "minor" decisions affected the world in the end.
I felt like I was cheating on Yennefer in the game. Why isn't she there? Am I missing something from the books not yet published in English? Arrg! Stupid publishers...
Overall this is one of the best RPG's I've ever played, and I LOVE RPG's. It was a little too action oriented for me as I prefer strategic battling in my RPG's (a-la Baldur's Gate), but over all this is just fantastic, it has a lot of depth, story and character development, decision making, and truly teaches a lesson on development and publishing to all major companies. I was amazed that my Enhanced Edition had more goodies than the average Collector's Edition of major companies (looking at you DA:O !). I did pre-order the Collector's Edition of TW2 :)
I just registered because I truly think the ending is worth discussing, and I am glad this thing is still going on after a couple of years.
I have to confess I didn't finish the original Witcher, in a way it wasn't making a lot of sense to me and the story felt a little broken (English version). I did love the atmosphere, the story, the characters, so I went ahead and read both books published in English so far (The Last Wish, Blood of Elves) and although the translations are not *that* good, I can tell Sapkowski is a great author and I fell in love with the saga. I even watched and enjoyed the Polish miniseries! In any case, I bought the Enhanced Edition a few months ago when it was around 20 dollars and now I regret not having finished it sooner!
Anyway, on to this matter. Just like a previous poster I read a bunch of comments but there is no way I could read them all, so here are my thoughts which may reflect something already posted:
Quote
1. I have no doubt Jacques is Alvin, the dwimeritium amulet plus Alvin's jump over time and space (as he is Aen Hen Ichaer, just like Cirilla in books) never let me thought otherwise and I'm pretty much surprised someone can be confused here. And when I've red someone thinks it's Emhyr var Emreis, nilfgaardian emperor, I was literally rotfl'ing. Emhyr, whom king Foltest, king Radovid, entire Temerian/Redanian intelligence and probably a big part of Temerian/Redanian nobles have seen at least once in their lives, yet no one recognized him? That's brilliant, really ^^
I also think that is the most "realistic" conclusion, given the evidence we have at hand. I even figured it out before killing him, I kept thinking of how Triss said he could have travelled in time and I was afraid I would be killing Alvin. However, let's not forget that the premise of the game's story is that Geralt somehow lost his memory, so there is a chance he might have known the Grand Master before and told him things about his visions, that reflect what he told Alvin because, after all, it is his personality emerging from amnesia. Also I suppose there is more than one dimeritium amulet in the world and that some people (i.e. sources) wear them to control/supress their abilities.
Quote
2. The asassin is clearly a witcher: eyes, reflexes, potion belt etc. Different combat style (different than Kaer Morhen origin?), different preferred weapon (In Kaer Morhen, Vesemir is always teaching witchers how to use one-and-a-half handed sword, simply called "witcher's sword" in game) and not using signs (doesn't feel it's necessary or simply don't know any?) shouldn't block the conclusion that it's a witcher from outside Kaer Morhen, trained differently. The fact that a place like this is not mentioned in any book doesn't mean it doesn't exist; in fact, the idea about him being mutated using stolen witcher's formulas is linked to the game main plot, and besides the short time period to be able to preform such mutation (someone accurately pointed it out earlier) it's quite a good idea. Now: no, the assassin doesn't look like Lambert (for me, not a bit), and no (another rotfl here) it's not Geralt "from the future".
Yes, I also agree that the assassin is a witcher from another school, and also not Geralt himself. It might also be a mutant created by Salamandra as you mentioned
Quote
The only characters able to make time travels in Sapkowski's world are some most powerful Aen Seidhe's (elven mages) and Aen Hen Ichaer's (Alvin from game/Cirilla from books). Really, Geralt is not one of them ;-)
And what if the Grandmaster is not Alvin, but he is also a source capable of visions and "time travel"? Maybe he, too, was given a dimeritium amulet in his youth. Maybe he met with Geralt sometime before the game story and Geralt gave him a speech on his visions and his power.
Maybe I'm looking too hard for alternative explanations because having killed Alvin kind of sucks, but that is probably it. Otherwise, why would "Jacques" use witcher-style magic? Didn't he use Aard to repel Geralt's steel sword at the end?
Quote
3. Despite the good story and a bit mysterious ending which I admire, I am greatly disappointed by the fact my romance, on which I was working during at least 3 game acts, wasn't even mentioned in the ending. I am really aware of old Geralt's lack-of-normal-emotions problem, which doesn't allow him to live a normal life, but come on! The old Geralt (from books) had a dream to have a normal family with sorceress Yennefer, and the new Geralt (after reanimation) seems to have the same dream in-game. Why in gods name should the game allow us to start a romance without a way of ending it successfully? IMO designers should have figured out a less frustrating way of informing players about Geralt's emotional problems ;-)
Yes, same here. I also wanted an account of what happened with all the choices I made, which somehow is explained in the final passage read by Dandelion but only makes reference to the major political conflict. I wanted to know how other "minor" decisions affected the world in the end.
I felt like I was cheating on Yennefer in the game. Why isn't she there? Am I missing something from the books not yet published in English? Arrg! Stupid publishers...
Overall this is one of the best RPG's I've ever played, and I LOVE RPG's. It was a little too action oriented for me as I prefer strategic battling in my RPG's (a-la Baldur's Gate), but over all this is just fantastic, it has a lot of depth, story and character development, decision making, and truly teaches a lesson on development and publishing to all major companies. I was amazed that my Enhanced Edition had more goodies than the average Collector's Edition of major companies (looking at you DA:O !). I did pre-order the Collector's Edition of TW2 :)
Facio, Voco, Ferre.
PC does not equal Windows. Personal computers run many different operating systems, like GNU/Linux and, why not, Windows. PC games should be available for all major platforms. Let's not be handcuffed and tied to one vendor. Utilize standard, cross-platform technologies!
** The Witcher IRC Channel (unofficial) ** irc://irc.xertion.org/TheWitcher ** Instant webchat: http://mibbit.com/#T...irc.xertion.org
PC does not equal Windows. Personal computers run many different operating systems, like GNU/Linux and, why not, Windows. PC games should be available for all major platforms. Let's not be handcuffed and tied to one vendor. Utilize standard, cross-platform technologies!
** The Witcher IRC Channel (unofficial) ** irc://irc.xertion.org/TheWitcher ** Instant webchat: http://mibbit.com/#T...irc.xertion.org
28.12.2010 @ 23:02 #863
Quote
Otherwise, why would "Jacques" use witcher-style magic? Didn't he use Aard to repel Geralt's steel sword at the end?
Well, actually an Aard is a petty spell to most sorcerers. Re-read "Blood of the Elves" it's explained there, when Triss bickers with Lambert ;) Most, if not all, witcher signs are actually petty spells.
Quote
I felt like I was cheating on Yennefer in the game. Why isn't she there? Am I missing something from the books not yet published in English? Arrg! Stupid publishers...
You should know most of it already from the game, but I'll put it as a spoiler to be sure:
29.12.2010 @ 02:44 #864
Quote
Well, actually an Aard is a petty spell to most sorcerers. Re-read "Blood of the Elves" it's explained there, when Triss bickers with Lambert ;) Most, if not all, witcher signs are actually petty spells.
Ah you're right, that was part of my reasoning at some point and I totally missed it when I typed my comment.
There really doesn't *have* to be a connection between Jacques and Geralt then, they might just be acquaintances of some sort, but he forgot, and of course the story so far wants us to believe he is Alvin. Well he probably is, but my point is it's not necessary.
Quote
You should know most of it already from the game, but I'll put it as a spoiler to be sure:
That explains it, only knew what happened to Geralt. Wish they would have published everything in English.
Did they even mention Yennefer at all in the game? I can't remember...
Thanks for your clarifications, I can sleep in peace now ;)
Facio, Voco, Ferre.
PC does not equal Windows. Personal computers run many different operating systems, like GNU/Linux and, why not, Windows. PC games should be available for all major platforms. Let's not be handcuffed and tied to one vendor. Utilize standard, cross-platform technologies!
** The Witcher IRC Channel (unofficial) ** irc://irc.xertion.org/TheWitcher ** Instant webchat: http://mibbit.com/#T...irc.xertion.org
PC does not equal Windows. Personal computers run many different operating systems, like GNU/Linux and, why not, Windows. PC games should be available for all major platforms. Let's not be handcuffed and tied to one vendor. Utilize standard, cross-platform technologies!
** The Witcher IRC Channel (unofficial) ** irc://irc.xertion.org/TheWitcher ** Instant webchat: http://mibbit.com/#T...irc.xertion.org
09.01.2011 @ 10:20 #865
First things first, I'm amazed this thread has gone on for so long.
Anyway, I haven't seen this suggested yet, and this was my innitial impression.
The Assasin in the end cutscene was Berengar (in my oppinion), and heres 2 things that back up that idea.
The first idea is if you manage to keep him alive when fighting Javed: something happens, and he is being mind controlled.
Second: he has been resurrected and is being mind controlled.
or third: he is just weird and crazy and has other motives and just wants to kill the king.
But yeah, Berengar: Just watch the cutscene again, and take a look at the dead guy's features, then go and look at a picture of Berengar in game, looks kinda similar eh?
That's my idea, I'll let you guys take it from here.
Anyway, I haven't seen this suggested yet, and this was my innitial impression.
The Assasin in the end cutscene was Berengar (in my oppinion), and heres 2 things that back up that idea.
The first idea is if you manage to keep him alive when fighting Javed: something happens, and he is being mind controlled.
Second: he has been resurrected and is being mind controlled.
or third: he is just weird and crazy and has other motives and just wants to kill the king.
But yeah, Berengar: Just watch the cutscene again, and take a look at the dead guy's features, then go and look at a picture of Berengar in game, looks kinda similar eh?
That's my idea, I'll let you guys take it from here.
- *Tommy*
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09.01.2011 @ 11:17 #866
Quote
First things first, I'm amazed this thread has gone on for so long.
Anyway, I haven't seen this suggested yet, and this was my innitial impression.
The Assasin in the end cutscene was Berengar (in my oppinion), and heres 2 things that back up that idea.
The first idea is if you manage to keep him alive when fighting Javed: something happens, and he is being mind controlled.
Second: he has been resurrected and is being mind controlled.
or third: he is just weird and crazy and has other motives and just wants to kill the king.
But yeah, Berengar: Just watch the cutscene again, and take a look at the dead guy's features, then go and look at a picture of Berengar in game, looks kinda similar eh?
That's my idea, I'll let you guys take it from here.
Anyway, I haven't seen this suggested yet, and this was my innitial impression.
The Assasin in the end cutscene was Berengar (in my oppinion), and heres 2 things that back up that idea.
The first idea is if you manage to keep him alive when fighting Javed: something happens, and he is being mind controlled.
Second: he has been resurrected and is being mind controlled.
or third: he is just weird and crazy and has other motives and just wants to kill the king.
But yeah, Berengar: Just watch the cutscene again, and take a look at the dead guy's features, then go and look at a picture of Berengar in game, looks kinda similar eh?
That's my idea, I'll let you guys take it from here.
Berengar ? My opinion on why it`s not him . In the outro the assassin dual wields swords something Berengar didn`t do in game and also what if he didn`t leave Black Tern Island at the boat ?
Need to e-mail me Tommy@kaermorhen.com
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09.01.2011 @ 16:05 #867
Considering we have a chance to kill him I seriously doubt it is him. Plus he dual-wields. Don't think it's a witcher we know. Or it may not even be a 'proper' witcher. Pretty wicked creatures were created by Javed and co, and he had the witcher secrets, so it's not unreasonable to think he may be able to create somebody with witcher eyes and fast reflexes. Or a proper witcher for that matter, with different morals. Or as a tool for the north.
Will be interesting to see how it pans out in TW2
Will be interesting to see how it pans out in TW2
30.03.2011 @ 11:03 #868
Love this thread :)
(sorry for my bad english)
So here's my reading on all this : almost sure that GM=Alvin, it's pretty obvious actually but who knows ? Maybe a plot twist for TW2. Anyway I prefer to think that he is actually the GM : throwing the bad guy of the game almost at the end of it is bad story telling to me : no background, almost no story for this character if he's not Alvin.
About this assassin now, i've seen al lot of things here^^
Some of them are making sense, some others kind of sounds like X Files rip off (cloning, mind control... -_-)
But again, who knows what the game designers have in mind ?
Just one thing tho : to me this yellow eyed freak cant be Lambert. The guy is a Andrzej Sapkowski character, and I dont think you can mess with that. Making a well established character a bad guy ? Interresting but dangerous, it's a long shot, cause we see a lot of Lambert in the books.
Plus the poor bastard dies the second he's coming out of the bad guys closet ? hmmm... It's kind of like making a game about The Lord of the Rings and make Gimli (or what ever) a traitor ! This idea is hard to sell...
I think Geralt had this look on this face just because the assassin has those yellow witcher eyes, not a common thing, even among witchers !
Now the other witcher school/the perfected mutant ? I cant say (cant decide actually), but I'll buy one or the other^^
The other school theory kind of sounds cool, and there's a few 'hints" on this in the game : the witcher potions belt on the assassin (pretty thin evidence I know but still), the fact that Vesemir mentioned some other school as well, add to that the fact that the witchers we know are from the wolf school and that there is a snake school (the two daggers figthing style would be a good incarnation of this "totem").
Plus the game is a lot about "taking side" : the world is changing and the old wicher code about "stay neutral" is threatened. They have to pick, and maybe the snake school already make this choice...
Anyway, one thing for sure : we will have the answer, as the next game is called: Assassin of Kings^^
See you all in Temeria, folks.
(sorry for my bad english)
So here's my reading on all this : almost sure that GM=Alvin, it's pretty obvious actually but who knows ? Maybe a plot twist for TW2. Anyway I prefer to think that he is actually the GM : throwing the bad guy of the game almost at the end of it is bad story telling to me : no background, almost no story for this character if he's not Alvin.
About this assassin now, i've seen al lot of things here^^
Some of them are making sense, some others kind of sounds like X Files rip off (cloning, mind control... -_-)
But again, who knows what the game designers have in mind ?
Just one thing tho : to me this yellow eyed freak cant be Lambert. The guy is a Andrzej Sapkowski character, and I dont think you can mess with that. Making a well established character a bad guy ? Interresting but dangerous, it's a long shot, cause we see a lot of Lambert in the books.
Plus the poor bastard dies the second he's coming out of the bad guys closet ? hmmm... It's kind of like making a game about The Lord of the Rings and make Gimli (or what ever) a traitor ! This idea is hard to sell...
I think Geralt had this look on this face just because the assassin has those yellow witcher eyes, not a common thing, even among witchers !
Now the other witcher school/the perfected mutant ? I cant say (cant decide actually), but I'll buy one or the other^^
The other school theory kind of sounds cool, and there's a few 'hints" on this in the game : the witcher potions belt on the assassin (pretty thin evidence I know but still), the fact that Vesemir mentioned some other school as well, add to that the fact that the witchers we know are from the wolf school and that there is a snake school (the two daggers figthing style would be a good incarnation of this "totem").
Plus the game is a lot about "taking side" : the world is changing and the old wicher code about "stay neutral" is threatened. They have to pick, and maybe the snake school already make this choice...
Anyway, one thing for sure : we will have the answer, as the next game is called: Assassin of Kings^^
See you all in Temeria, folks.
Aurë entulyva.
-
- *Tommy*
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30.03.2011 @ 23:24 #869
@ faroth
Thanks for sharing your views and welcome to the forum !
Thanks for sharing your views and welcome to the forum !
Need to e-mail me Tommy@kaermorhen.com
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05.04.2011 @ 04:52 #870
Faroth is right. Got to be another witcher.
Witchers kill monsters but just look at what Geralt had to do. He dabbled in politics throughout the game. In a big way. The second school might have become entangled into some intrigue and ended up either as an order of assassins or more likely as idealists trying to make the world better. Killing a few kings along the way COULD help with that.
Witchers kill monsters but just look at what Geralt had to do. He dabbled in politics throughout the game. In a big way. The second school might have become entangled into some intrigue and ended up either as an order of assassins or more likely as idealists trying to make the world better. Killing a few kings along the way COULD help with that.
01.08.2011 @ 20:49 #871
Hello everyone and welcome back to the forums 
I shall be the one to revive this long-lived thread that must never die, only to mention that finally after TW2 we have understood the ending movie of The Witcher. As faroth pointed out, there IS a school of the viper, and we all know the rest (if you don't, then go play The Witcher 2 NOW!). Kudos to CD Projekt as this shows a well planned story line for what would be the second part of The Witcher.
The main question still remains: who the f*** is Jacques de Aldersberg?
I shall be the one to revive this long-lived thread that must never die, only to mention that finally after TW2 we have understood the ending movie of The Witcher. As faroth pointed out, there IS a school of the viper, and we all know the rest (if you don't, then go play The Witcher 2 NOW!). Kudos to CD Projekt as this shows a well planned story line for what would be the second part of The Witcher.
The main question still remains: who the f*** is Jacques de Aldersberg?
Facio, Voco, Ferre.
PC does not equal Windows. Personal computers run many different operating systems, like GNU/Linux and, why not, Windows. PC games should be available for all major platforms. Let's not be handcuffed and tied to one vendor. Utilize standard, cross-platform technologies!
** The Witcher IRC Channel (unofficial) ** irc://irc.xertion.org/TheWitcher ** Instant webchat: http://mibbit.com/#T...irc.xertion.org
PC does not equal Windows. Personal computers run many different operating systems, like GNU/Linux and, why not, Windows. PC games should be available for all major platforms. Let's not be handcuffed and tied to one vendor. Utilize standard, cross-platform technologies!
** The Witcher IRC Channel (unofficial) ** irc://irc.xertion.org/TheWitcher ** Instant webchat: http://mibbit.com/#T...irc.xertion.org
