Quest : Learn more about it .... ????????????
13.09.2011 @ 09:52 #21
I also hope they don't dumb-down, but have confidence in CDPR. You are SUPPOSED to die a few times in boss fights in your first playthrough, otherwise how can you feel any achievement when you finally beat it? You are SUPPOSED to have to explore everywhere, and talk to everyone, otherwise why bother having a world to explore in the first place? I expect to get my money's worth out of a game, and that means I don't want to be able to finish it in 20 hours by blindly following instructions given to me by my computer.
The troll's head isn't exactly inconspicuous. I would expect that at least half the players would have seen it before even getting that far in the quest.
13.09.2011 @ 09:55 #22
When I feel like doing stuff like that, I play a puzzle game. Or a game with puzzle elements. That's not the reason I play games like TW2.
Of course, I don't mind the current state of things, I just have the game running on one window and the wiki up on another monitor. Obviously this is not a solution that'll work for everyone.
The problem with dumbed down clues is this... Yes the journal article gives a VERY obvious clue about what you should use to kill nekker nests. However, the journal article gives a lot of other little bits of information about little things in the witcher world, which are not clues used for quests. In other words, people end up assuming the journal is 'flavor' only until something like this happens.
The thing is, most of the poeple playing this game aren't new gamers who stare at everything with wonder and think about whether or not it's a clue to something and role play "in character". No, most of us are seasoned gamers who have already been conditioned to a lot of the common game mechanics. One of them for RPGs is, puzzles are clearly delimited and marked out as puzzles. Other times, clear guidance should be provided for quests.
13.09.2011 @ 12:03 #23
My issue with a console version, too. LOL! I remember the Oblivion forums where the Konsole Kids thought OB was too hard....... Can't wait for more of these types of posts when the Xbox version comes along.
Please CDPR, stick to your guns! No dumbing down of the TW series.
13.09.2011 @ 12:07 #24
Just no. TW2 got it right. Hints without being obvious. I prefer that "puzzles" be a part of the game world without sticking out like a ore thumb and killing immersion.
13.09.2011 @ 13:31 #26
14.09.2011 @ 02:15 #27
However, that was a statement about the general state of RPGs. ›››
Agreed. I just think that thanks to the likes of Fable and DA2, the Xbox crowd is gonna flood the forums with similar complaints.
14.09.2011 @ 03:30 #28
Have you been in the Steam forum in the last couple of days? Your fears may be justified. I just hope CDPR doesn't give in to the pressure.
14.09.2011 @ 15:59 #31
See, these are the kind of posts that get me anxious about TW3 getting dumbed down... *snip* ›››
TW2 is a great game but it has inconsistencies in its approach. Why, for example, make potion-drinking more difficult/tactical/realistic when Geralt still somehow has the unrealistic/cheap ability to sharpen his sword with a whetstone mid-fight? When you argue against it getting 'dumbed down', you're talking as if it is not already dumbed down - well let's say 'easy to grasp' - in so many other respects already. Trying to keep certain random elements of the game as awkward as possible just makes it confusing and frustrating, not challenging. Case in point: that Nekker quest. Without being told how many Nekker nests there are, an 'easy to grasp' quest counter pops up telling me that I have destroyed 0/4. Yet despite knowing (without being told) how many nests there are, Geralt has no idea where they are. That makes no sense, it's immersion breaking and unintuitive because I'm not sure whether I should go searching for the nests myself or whether I'm expected to ask the Alderman for the nest locations and get a pointer to show up, or what.
Furthermore there is absolutely no reason for monster info to reside in both the character sheet (where you can find the Nekker/grapeshot tip) and also in the Journal in a trimmed down useless version that says nothing about grapeshot. The 'Monsters' section in the journal is utterly redundant except for the fact that it has cute pictures.
So TW2's approach to helping the player could have done with some refinement, and refinement would not necessarily mean 'dumbing down'. There's no need to accuse new players of being console neanderthals just because they stumble over the unevenness of the system. TW2 is already dumbed down (if we are going to use that term), it just isn't dumbed down in a smooth and logical way.
15.09.2011 @ 00:55 #32
But back to Troll Trouble - after your first visit to the troll, your dialogue and the journal both say to talk to your friends/acquaintances in the area, not every NPC. That probably means a maximum of about six people. These dialogues tell you that it's going to be in clear view, and that you need to look in the houses in Lobinden. How many houses are there? Less than 10. It's already been made easy by narrowing it down to Lobinden.
Yes, some people will have problems with this, and yes, they should be comfortable with coming into forums and asking without getting condescending replies. But when it switches from "I'm stuck, how do I do this" to "I can't do this therefore the game sucks" I think there are grounds for concern that CDPR may actually listen to the feedback. And human nature dictates that it will also affect the tone of the responses given.
Two days ago there were multiple posts in Steam from someone who didn't understand basic gameplay, openly stated that he didn't like to read manuals, and posted every problem as a game bug. Maybe it's affected my views.
15.09.2011 @ 02:52 #33
Again, I'm not necessarily saying that quest should be simplified. If anything I'd like to see more like it, with most of the quest pointers and objective counters dropped in favour of hints given by NPCs, or natural sounding journal notes. It's just that Troll Trouble was so clearly developed with a more laissez faire attitude to minimap & journal help than the vast majority of the rest of the game's quests, so, as we agree, it's not right to jump on someone's back over it.
My larger point is basically that future The Witchers should either be thoroughly accessible (arrows and help on a consistent basis) or more hands off and naturalistic across the board (less intrusive UI, all info from NPCs instead of godly glowing arrows). I'd much prefer the latter, but if it's a mix of the two then people are liable to have confused expectations while playing and end up tripping over none too complex quests. Considering that OP was harking back to TW1, I was inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.
15.09.2011 @ 03:57 #34
15.09.2011 @ 04:19 #35
The trouble I had with that quest, was always not in this part, but in the part straight afterwards - to find the troll head.
I'll explain why I had problems with this.
I used the Kayran trap in my second playthrough, on hard, after I'd understood all the game mechanics, etc. It wasn't obvious how to use the trap. You can't just lay the trap down with the 'r' key like other traps, which I tried doing and took quite a few hits for. You had to walk up to the spots already marked, and a prompt comes up to either click or press a key (I don't remember). That prompt only comes up when the marker is centered on your screen (like the way the "open" prompt only comes up when you are close to a door). i.e. I noticed it appearing very briefly, and almost died a few times trying to position my camera right to get it to appear again. I only did this for completionist sake though, I'd already read that the Kayran trap wasn't worth it. But point being, was not obvious how to use it.
Yrden was almost just as bad. With no tutorial in the game, my first playthrough... by chapter 1 the only sign I'd really used was Quen. Aard a little, Igni was easy to understand. But I simply hadn't understood or worked out how to use Yrden and Axii. By second playthrough, "Use Yrden to trap tentacles" would have been very obvious