[Corylea]

The last line of that conversation between Triss and the woman in the mirror (in the cutscene at the beginning of Chapter 3) is, "Never let the witcher guess what you hide from him."

So, what IS Triss hiding from Geralt?

(I've seen some speculation that what she's hiding is that his true love when he was alive the first time was Yennefer, but I'd be surprised if the woman in the mirror cared much about that, since the two of them are talking politics the rest of the time.  But if it's not Yennefer, what IS it?

Thoughts?  Speculation?  Wild theories? :-)

[Anathemic]

It might have to do with the political scheme and relating to Salamandra, as with Geralt he might've just went straight after Salamandra ignoring the political implications it might have.

Or thinking more outside the box, it might have to do with Yennefer!

[Corylea]

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It might have to do with the political scheme and relating to Salamandra, as with Geralt he might've just went straight after Salamandra ignoring the political implications it might have.

Does Triss know that Adda is working with Salamandra?  Does she know that Salamandra is actually an arm of the Order of the Flaming Rose?  I don't remember any evidence that she knew those things, but it's been awhile since I've played Chapter 3.

Triss talks about "convincing" Geralt.  Well, what does she ask Geralt to do?

1.  Place the sensors to find the source
2.  Come to Leuvaarden's party
3.  Believe that she can't bring his memory back

Um, anything else?

[Anathemic]

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It might have to do with the political scheme and relating to Salamandra, as with Geralt he might've just went straight after Salamandra ignoring the political implications it might have.

Does Triss know that Adda is working with Salamandra?  Does she know that Salamandra is actually an arm of the Order of the Flaming Rose?  I don't remember any evidence that she knew those things, but it's been awhile since I've played Chapter 3.

Triss talks about "convincing" Geralt.  Well, what does she ask Geralt to do?

1.  Place the sensors to find the source
2.  Come to Leuvaarden's party
3.  Believe that she can't bring his memory back

Um, anything else?

I think you got all three down, and I'm more leaning toward the Leuvaarden's party as thats' the suggestion most politically-influenced (as the conversation was going).

And I don't believe Triss knew about the relation with the Order and Salamndra.

[Edk]

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It might have to do with the political scheme and relating to Salamandra, as with Geralt he might've just went straight after Salamandra ignoring the political implications it might have.

Does Triss know that Adda is working with Salamandra?  Does she know that Salamandra is actually an arm of the Order of the Flaming Rose?  I don't remember any evidence that she knew those things, but it's been awhile since I've played Chapter 3.

Triss talks about "convincing" Geralt.  Well, what does she ask Geralt to do?

1.  Place the sensors to find the source
2.  Come to Leuvaarden's party
3.  Believe that she can't bring his memory back

Um, anything else?

It is either the polical scheme or the memory. I really didn't pay much attention to who the sorceresses in the book where. Any idea who the woman in the mirror is?
It is most likely that she is talking about the memory loss and the fact that Geralt isn't aware who Yennefer was :) All evidence point to this. I will take a look at the cutscene again.

[*Tommy*]

Well Triss is a sorceress and can therefore sense magic so why wasn`t she more concerned about the magic storm from whence Geralt came back and maybe she knows how and why he came back and not telling him for her own personal reasons. I`m almost sure that the MW was a sorceress as well ...possibly from a lodge of sorceresses . Who knows what can happen when sorceresses pool their magic and for what purpose ...surely it was for something more than fulfilling destiny and putting them back in favor with the king . Hmmm might have to think way outside the box for the answer to this one .

[Corylea]

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It is most likely that she is talking about the memory loss and the fact that Geralt isn't aware who Yennefer was :) All evidence point to this.

What evidence is that?

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I will take a look at the cutscene again.

I've posted the text of the conversation in the mirror, here:  
http://tw1.thewitche...2577#msg5482577

[Guy N'wah]

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It is either the polical scheme or the memory. I really didn't pay much attention to who the sorceresses in the book where. Any idea who the woman in the mirror is?
It is most likely that she is talking about the memory loss and the fact that Geralt isn't aware who Yennefer was :) All evidence point to this. I will take a look at the cutscene again.

These mirrors are said to be able to communicate only over short distances. Since we are also told that Philippa Eilhart is in town, it is a reasonable guess that it is her -- but that is by no means certain.

The sorceresses are playing a very tricky game of high-stakes politics. The way I read the conversation is that Mirror Lady is concerned about Geralt doing the wrong thing if he knows too much about their plans and alliances and deals. The problem with having a one-man wrecking crew working for you is that you must make sure he wrecks only what you tell him to.

[slimgrin]

What is Triss trying to convince Geralt of? Maybe it's about Alvin.

I see it as political intrigue, and not about Geralt's personal life. The lodge is manipulating the king and his followers, imo.

[Corylea]

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These mirrors are said to be able to communicate only over short distances.

Ah, interesting.  How often are the mirrors used in the books?  Is it a common, everyday method of communication for sorceresses, or is it a big deal?

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Since we are also told that Philippa Eilhart is in town, it is a reasonable guess that it is her -- but that is by no means certain.

But isn't Philippa Eilhart an elf?  Not that sorceresses always use their real appearance, but I'd be surprised if an elf presented as a human to someone who knew her to be an elf -- I'd think elves would be too proud for that.

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The problem with having a one-man wrecking crew working for you is that you must make sure he wrecks only what you tell him to.

*laugh*  Excellently put!

[Guy N'wah]

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But isn't Philippa Eilhart an elf?  Not that sorceresses always use their real appearance, but I'd be surprised if an elf presented as a human to someone who knew her to be an elf -- I'd think elves would be too proud for that.

It isn't stated either in Blood of Elves (or Sorcerers and Sorceresses in-game) that she is. (S&S does mention that Francesca Findabar is an elf.) But Blood of Elves describes her as dark-haired and partial to black adornments, while Mirror Lady isn't anything like that.

[Corylea]

I'm wondering if the Lodge of Sorceresses could have been the ones to bring Geralt back.  We know that Yennefer tried to do that and failed, but the entire Lodge working together might be able to do something that one sorceress working alone couldn't do.  And I figure for Yennefer to have tried, there had to be something that could be tried.  Put fifty sorceresses on that, and maybe...

[Edk]

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What evidence is that?

Well,
In the books Triss really loved Geralt, but Yennefer was his choice and true love. Now that he has lost his memory she can have the Geralt that loves her as much as before, but who doesn't remember Yennefer. She is sort of hiding her from him, or atlest doesn't try very hard to make him remember :).
Another thing, but i might be wrong. Geralt doesn't seem like the political player that is taken seriously. He is very powerful, but he is still one man. No body takes him really seriously, especially the sorceresses. Geralt wakes up in the end of the conversation, which we can assume has gone for a lot of time. And he is mentioned just in the last few lines. And not as a powerful player, but just as something personal, someone Triss likes, but who doesn't have the power to really influence the events that are "beyond anything he could imagine".
It is strange that other sorceress knows about him. She must be either a very good friend of Triss (I don't know, i sort of got the impression that there is rivalry in the Lodge, or at least a common goal, not friendship. Another thing we can assume from this, though it might be qualified as a wild theory" is that she knows this because, as Corylea said, it was the Lodge that brought him back. Triss has a lot of influence there, and she could convince all others to help with such a grand spell, probably just for her own personal desires. Or a sorceress saw some tithing in the future (providence, was it?) and told them that the only way to stop the people that threaten them and thus, keep the balance, is by resurrecting Geralt. He did stop Salamandra and the order, after all. And Triss just happened to be in the keep when he appeared, just before the Salamandra attack :) In this case she could have prepared better for the protection of the witcher's secrets, but if they were not taken the order wouldn't have been exposed.




Another thing, something I consider earlier, was that she was trying to hide the fact that every major organization is working with Salamandra, including princess Adda, the Order etc. If Geralt went straight after them he would have certainly died. Remember the time right after Scoiátel attacks the bank? When Geralt sides with the Scoi'atel and asks her whether the old Geralt would have done the same she says with relief "yes"? It is not like the Scoi'atel are very pleasant to her, they fought against the king in the hardest time for the northern kingdoms-the Nilfgardian wars. And yet she is relieved when she hears that Geralt sided with them. If you decide to side with the order she is disappointed, saying that before Geralt wan't that cold-hearted (not exactly, but something like that). It is as if she knew what the order is doing, but doesn't want to tell Geralt. Didn't she say that she had to make a promise to get certain information? It is very likely that this information is indeed about the order's involvement.

"Never let the witcher guess what you hide from him."
She could mean both of the above, because Triss isn't hiding just one thing from him, she is hiding both Yenefer and the order's involvement.
Well, in my humble opinion, that is what happened. It sounds logical for me :))))))

[Corylea]

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Remember the time right after Scoiátel attacks the bank? When Geralt sides with the Scoi'atel and asks her whether the old Geralt would have done the same she says with relief "yes"? It is not like the Scoi'atel are very pleasant to her, they fought against the king in the hardest time for the northern kingdoms-the Nilfgardian wars. And yet she is relieved when she hears that Geralt sided with them. If you decide to side with the order she is disappointed, saying that before Geralt wan't that cold-hearted (not exactly, but something like that).

Actually, Triss says you've made the right choice no matter which you pick.  The first time I played the game, I told Triss that I'd sided with the Scoia'tael because I thought freedom and dignity were causes that deserved to be aided, and Triss said I'd made the right choice, and I thought I had it all figured out. :-)  Then other players said they'd sided with the Order, and Triss had told them they'd made the right choice, too.  So I opened Triss' conversation in Djinni to look at it.

Here are the various possible paths through that conversation.  (I've put all the pro-Scoia'tael paths under 1 and all the pro-Order paths under 2, then since each of the two main choices has three possible reasons, I've listed those as 1a, 1b, 1c, and so on, to try to make it easier to follow six conversational paths.)

G:  About my identity...

T:  Any progress?

G:  1. I decided to help Yaevinn and the Scoia'tael.

T:  Interesting. Why did you decide to help the nonhumans?

G 1a:  I identify with nonhumans to a degree. Like me, they're scorned outcasts.

T 1a:  You haven't changed, Geralt. Still bothered by your solitude and the derision you face, though you rarely admit that. I don't know if you've chosen well, but the Geralt I knew would've done the same.

G 1a:  Enough about that.

T 1a:  Ha, embarrassed? We don't have to talk about it anymore. Just remember to think your decisions through.

G 1a:  I'm not embarrassed. I want my memory back, now.

OR

G 1b: I understand the nonhumans' ideals and agree with them to an extent. The elves and dwarves are fighting for freedom and dignity, causes that deserve to be aided.

T 1b:  How noble of you. And what of the famous witcher's neutrality? You're drowning in your sense of decency, though it always gets you in trouble. If you could only remember how many times you've been driven by your heart, what you believed was right - you wouldn't be surprised by your choice.

G 1b:  Do you think I've chosen as I would have... before I lost my memory?

T 1b:  I do. And that Geralt I like.

G 1b:  Ah, Triss, I'm beginning to doubt these conversations will get me anywhere.

OR

G 1c:  Actually, I don't think I know why.

T 1c:  On instinct?

G 1c:  Perhaps.

T 1c:  Well, that won't tell us anything about your amnesia. Hopefully we'll learn more in the future.

G 1c:  We'll see.

OR

G 2. I agreed to help Siegfried and the Order of the Flaming Rose. I wonder if the former Geralt would have done the same.

T:  Interesting. Why help the Order? What drove you to do that?

G:  2a:  I concluded I'm human. Yes, I was subjected to mutation at Kaer Morhen, but that didn't strip me of my humanity. And then I trained to protect humans.

T:  2a:  The obsession with humanity and a witcher's calling. I should've known.

G 2a:  Do you think I chose like I would have before?

T 2a:  You never broached the subject directly. I guess the amnesia removed certain barriers. You're more open. I suppose that's progress.

G 2a:  If you say so.

T 2a:  Think and talk about your decisions. This just might be the right path to restoring your memory.

G 2a:  I certainly hope so.

OR

G 2b:  I don't understand the nonhumans. Of two evils, I think the Order is the lesser one.

T 2b:  And therein lies the voice of reason. Hysterics and madmen who led youths to certain death always angered you. I'm not surprised you chose the Order.

G 2b:  Was I really so reasonable?

T 2b:  Unfortunately. Though I admit there were times when you followed your heart.

G 2b:  All this soul searching has yet to restore my memory.

T 2b:  Patience, we're on the right path.

G 2b:  I certainly hope so.

OR

G 2c:  No specific reason, I just decided to help the Order.

T 2c:  I think you had a reason, but you need to figure out what it was. I can't help you there.

G 2c:  All right.  I'll think about it.


The player gets better responses from Triss for choosing the philosophical path (1b or 2b) than for choosing the racial identity path (1a or 2a), but positive responses for both Scoia'tael or Order are possible.

[3DMaster]

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And yet she is relieved when she hears that Geralt sided with them. If you decide to side with the order she is disappointed, saying that before Geralt wan't that cold-hearted (not exactly, but something like that).

No, she didn't. She says that this is exactly what the old Geralt would do, no matter what choice you make.

[Cassandra31EEE]

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Thoughts?  Speculation?  Wild theories? :-)

Here comes my theory. :)

What if Yenefer had changed position with Triss? I haven't read the end of the saga, to know if  Triss was there and what she did after Geralt's death, but...
I 'm saying that this is not Triss, it's Yenefer in Triss' body!

Eh? Does this solve the mystery, or what?
:}

( I 'm talking half-seriously, and not entirely joking. This is fantasy, so why not? )

[Corylea]

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Thoughts?  Speculation?  Wild theories? :-)

Here comes my theory. :)

What if Yenefer had changed position with Triss? I haven't read the end of the saga, to know if  Triss was there and what she did after Geralt's death, but...
I 'm saying that this is not Triss, it's Yenefer in Triss' body!

Congratulations!  You have succeeded in adding something genuinely new to the discussion.  Pretty good for a game that's been out for three years. :-)

But really, although that seems improbable, it doesn't seem impossible, and THAT would be a really, really incredible thing to be what she's hiding from him.

[3DMaster]

Which begs the question: where is / what happened to the real Triss?

[Corylea]

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Which begs the question: where is / what happened to the real Triss?

Yennefer killed her?  Or Triss is working undercover somewhere, while Yennefer -- believed to be dead -- maintains her public appearance, so nobody suspects the undercover person of being Triss?  Heck, a good writer could come up with a thousand possible scenarios.

I don't think Cassandra's theory is likely, but it's one of many possible theories.

Also possible is that the Lodge has some special plans for Alvin, once they get their hands on him.

Or maybe Triss is just sleeping with Foltest and concealing that. :-)

[slimgrin]

Yesterday after reading this thread I thought of Javed assuming a different appearance, and so it's possible Triss might in fact be Yeneffer, but I think that has the potential to be a fairly cheap literary trick. Besides, would Geralt be more reluctant to help Yeneffer than Triss?