[Pangaea]

Thanks It was an awesome dungeon, with some crazily intense fights, primarily the one detailed above.

I talked to Demogorgon, then went back up to the top to talk to the group. Something was clearly not right, but it felt odd to kind of trust this creature that was obviously rather unpleasant by all accounts. I didn't lie to the Knights, but said the Imprisoned One had told me something interesting (or something along those lines). They wondered if I had killed him, but don't think I gave a straight answer, but said they had lied to me. Then Odron admitted he had, before the whole group left to go downstairs. The Apparition appeared, told us who the Imprisoned One really was, and what would have happened had we read the Odren scroll, and gave us the new scroll to use. I did that, and the place got locked up.

When I reloaded to check out what the Demogorgon fight was like, the Knights died as we walked in. Looked like Odren was still alive as he was unconscious on the floor with a white circle around him. We died, however, so don't know if we could have talked to him or something after. We probably could, as this fight would then have saved him. Think I'll just move on instead though. He doesn't deserve to live after what he did, and the best solution seems to be to lock up Demogorgon again instead of letting him loose on the Planes.

Don't think I've heard about a Rhynn Lanthorn yet (or I don't recall), but now it's back to face Bodhi. Hopefully the fights we've just been through have enabled us to face up to just about anything. That first key battle was just out of this world We have levelled up a great deal too. Minsc and Keldorn are level 22, and all have 4+ million XP.

[.Volsung.]

Pangaea said:

Don't think I've heard about a Rhynn Lanthorn yet (or I don't recall), but now it's back to face Bodhi. Hopefully the fights we've just been through have enabled us to face up to just about anything. That first key battle was just out of this world /> We have levelled up a great deal too. Minsc and Keldorn are level 22, and all have 4+ million XP. ›››

Oops!

Yeah from now on the last part of SoA should be pretty easy power-wise. There are still some tough battles ahead, but what you've faced probably let you improve your tactics enough to win the remaining battles in no more than one or two tries.

This last part, and all of Throne of Bhaal, are very epic and intense.

[Pangaea]

When I played a little further I remembered what it was, so no worries.

Have come a good bit further now, should be close to the end.

Battle with Bodhi was a strain. Just about everybody evaporated from a Sunray from a Helmet Keldorn has, but Bodhi was one tough customer. She was on Near Death for an eternity and a half. Think it was the polluting of the blood pools that did it. When Jaheira had done them all, Bodhi finally took some extra damage and died. Unfortunately we didn't get the kill on her ourselves, but I was happy enough when she finally fell, so we stabbed some wood into her and left. Didn't read the books well enough, so took a long time until I figured out how to get Aerie back.

Elven City had lots of tough foes, but all fights went fairly well actually. Adamantite Golems in the open was rough to say the least, but we got by with a little run and shoot and so forth. We were almost out of spells when we reached the Black Dragon, but figured it was worth a shot without sleeping, and we got him.

At first I couldn't understand why the hell Irenicus wouldn't fall. We kept hitting him with everything, yet he was still in dialogue mode. Felt a little silly when I finally sent Keldorn away to check out the last virus thing, and I had forgotten to click one more time to disable the damn thing. So we tried again, and this time it went better. Had to pound him for ever so long until protections started to go down without popping back up again, but then it was a short process really. Took a hell of a lot of damage though. No saves from Comet and Dragon's Breath, and he still stood. Think it was Minsc that got the last say here too, as he often does.

Not half-weird to finally kill Irenicus, and then WE go to hell. WTF? That's where I am now. Have just chosen the left selfless path and gotten Bhaal's Tear, which was the first stairs down we took. Looks like we need 3-4 more items, and then I suppose we'll be able to open that huge door and probably fight Irenicus yet again.

Some interesting twists in the story at the end here, but so far nothing wildly different from what I have guessed. There is probably more to come, though.

Feels a bit silly that I can probably count on one hand the people we have met who have been honest with us, at least of major NPCs. Everybody and their dog are deceiving us one way or another.

Such a wonderful game, though. Will be a little sad to finish it

[.Volsung.]

So then you know who Irenicus was, why he is what he is now, and who his lover was. Remember the dryads in the dungeon? 'he still user her key' they said. He keeps her room intact since, they said, he still loves her.
Not a wild twist, but a nice touch I think.
You're still many hours away from finishing if you consider the expansion.

[Pangaea]

Good point, I had forgotten that detail from the beginning. It is a nice twist which makes him more 'human', and although he is still extreme as hell, it's more understandable why he has done what he has.

You said there are 30 hours in the expansion, so I probably still have 50 hours left. I'm not the fastest

Think it's time to fire up the game again though, and see if we can wrap up SoA. I wouldn't think it's too much left now.

Difficulty has been a lot more manageable now, compared to how I struggled in the beginning. We probably have much more XP than "intended" now, though, as we have done the Keep, so that must play into our hands.

[.Volsung.]

Pangaea said:

Good point, I had forgotten that detail from the beginning. It is a nice twist which makes him more 'human', and although he is still extreme as hell, it's more understandable why he has done what he has.

You said there are 30 hours in the expansion, so I probably still have 50 hours left. I'm not the fastest />

Think it's time to fire up the game again though, and see if we can wrap up SoA. I wouldn't think it's too much left now.

Difficulty has been a lot more manageable now, compared to how I struggled in the beginning. We probably have much more XP than "intended" now, though, as we have done the Keep, so that must play into our hands. ›››

Well the original SoA experience cap was 2.95 million I think, so you are well beyond that. Still, Irenicus can be overwhelming.

In any case, enjoy the endgame!

And don't worry, there are many tough battles in Throne of Bhaal, especially designed for high level characters.

[Pangaea]

It is done. Irenicus is no more

Surprised we won actually, because we were almost totally unprotected as most had run out by the time we opened the door, and I did not expect the battle to be right there. Actually think a bloody Fire Elemental got the kill, he was whacking at him during the death sequence, and no XP was listed anywhere when I looked in the log afterwards. Weird, and a little annoying.

Then we got bumped into the start of ToB. Maybe I'll start that adventure later today.

Quite the interesting finish, and a wonderful game. Can certainly understand why so many love it. Little sad to be done with it though; can only play a game unspoiled once. Stories are very important to me, so I rarely play games more than once, but this is one I may play through several times.

Small question on the item we got from the Elven Queen. It said it offered complete protection against enchantments and, I think, spells. But when I put it on I couldn't see anything, like mindshield for example. Does it offer any extra protection, or is it "just" 10% magic protection and +1 saving throws?

[Pangaea]

Have started playing ToB, and really like it so far. Minsc and Keldorn are taking a LOT more damage though, as foes seem to hit a lot harder now. I have a problem, however. I love Minsc and Boo, I really do, but they are starting to seriously get on my tits. I've played the game a lot lately. It's fun and cute when they come with their "random" comments once in a while, but once every two minutes is not so cute any more. Comments seem to be much more frequent from this couple than the other party members. Have tried to reduce sounds to Never in-game, but it's for selection or combat, so it does nothing. Any idea how this can be reduced in frequency, or alternatively removed?

From searching I see it's possible to mute character sounds altogether, but that will presumably also remove the sound when NPCs are voiced, which I don't want. Particularly now, as it seems like there is more voiced acting in ToB, which I like so far.

Have done the first area btw, and am off to some forest now. Took a long time with Cespenaar forging weapons, and some of them will be very useful - although I'm kind of set in what we use. Minsc and Keldorn with tanking and the others with bows/crossbows and slings. Jaheira is using a detonation club now, which is nasty when the fireball pops out.

[.Volsung.]

Belated congratulations on killing Irenicus!

-- To end... like this!?

Aah, good times. So you know queen Ellesime is the same Ellesime that guy was sculpting on a piece of rock in BG1, right? And YOU met her!

To be honest... I never used Minsc in ToB! Shame on me! No idea how to mute only one NPC's voice. And yes, I think there is more voice acting in ToB.

So you know the first Bhaalspawn that confronted you, Illasera? Did you pick up her equipment? If not, go BACK and do it! She drops really good stuff, including another pair of boots of speed. What I normally do is loot her quickly before I get transported to the pocket plane.

So you are now in Saradush? That is kind of a fun little part. You have quite an epic adventure ahead of you.

[Pangaea]

.Volsung. said:

Belated congratulations on killing Irenicus!

-- To end... like this!?

Aah, good times. So you know queen Ellesime is the same Ellesime that guy was sculpting on a piece of rock in BG1, right? And YOU met her!

Thanks, it was one hell of a ride

Have to be honest though, this Ellesime sculpting business completely escaped me. Maybe I need to play BG1 yet again.

Quote

To be honest... I never used Minsc in ToB! Shame on me! No idea how to mute only one NPC's voice. And yes, I think there is more voice acting in ToB.

Never play... WHAT?!

Hoped there was an easy way to do this, but have found nothing while searching, and can't see anything in the sounds folder either. If Minsc' lines were there, I could just have backed them up elsewhere. Seems to me they are just going overkill with his one-liners, and it has starting to become *very* annoying to hear this every 2 minutes, or whatever it may be. Tried to reduce voices to 0, but that took out a lot. Between a rock and a hard place now

Quote

So you know the first Bhaalspawn that confronted you, Illasera? Did you pick up her equipment? If not, go BACK and do it! She drops really good stuff, including another pair of boots of speed. What I normally do is loot her quickly before I get transported to the pocket plane.

So you are now in Saradush? That is kind of a fun little part. You have quite an epic adventure ahead of you.

Think I managed to loot her actually, before we got dragged out of there. Don't recall what she had, though.

I have done Saradush and am now butting heads with a neverending flow of Fire Giants. Do they spawn one a second or something? Fucking HELL! Finally I just gave up and went in some hot door - where something crazy like EIGHT Fire Giants awaited us. Fighting one is tough, 2 fucking tough, but EIGHT? I just gave up yesterday in frustration, but the only way I can see is to go in, kill one, go out again and heal up. Staying inside and killing all is impossible, simple as that. Thank goodness we have gotten a good supply of healing potions now, because we are going through them worryingly fast. In the countless battles outside with 2 fire giants, I send in Minsc, Keldorn and Jaheira with melee, and the others shoot crap at them. Sometimes it's literally one second after combat begins, and the game is autopaused with e.g. Keldorn badly injured. What the hell?! He has 165HP or thereabouts.

I liked Saradush though. Some tough battles there, and it was annoying when suddenly we got firebombed when walking around the city, but it had some fun missions. Some annoying fetch quests too, but overall I liked the area. If only Minsc would stop bleating on about fighting evil and all his other lines

Who do you tend to play with btw, if you have never had Minsc? He's a ridiculously good fighter, at least the way I have built him, dualwielding flail of ages and crom faeyr. Do you pick up some of the guys we 'summon'?

I am using the same bunch of people as we have for virtually all of SoA, as I like them (overuse of Minsc comments aside) and the group seems well-balanced. Minsc, Keldorn, Aerie, Imoen and Jaheira, plus the thief-illusionist gnome protagonist. Next time I think I'd prefer a 'proper' mage though. Maybe dualled from fighter, to be more durable and have better thac0. The 'shorty bonus' for the gnome is great though, and it's nice with an extra spell per level from the specialisation, particularly now when he has finally gotten access to level 8 spells, so he can finally do some proper damage. Still a mile away from level 9 unfortunately

[.Volsung.]

Pangaea said:

Think I managed to loot her actually, before we got dragged out of there. Don't recall what she had, though. ›››

Well check your pockets. You should have, among other things, an extra set of boots of speed!

Pangaea said:

I have done Saradush and am now butting heads with a neverending flow of Fire Giants. Do they spawn one a second or something? Fucking HELL! Finally I just gave up and went in some hot door - where something crazy like EIGHT Fire Giants awaited us. Fighting one is tough, 2 fucking tough, but EIGHT? I just gave up yesterday in frustration, but the only way I can see is to go in, kill one, go out again and heal up. Staying inside and killing all is impossible, simple as that. Thank goodness we have gotten a good supply of healing potions now, because we are going through them worryingly fast. In the countless battles outside with 2 fire giants, I send in Minsc, Keldorn and Jaheira with melee, and the others shoot crap at them. Sometimes it's literally one second after combat begins, and the game is autopaused with e.g. Keldorn badly injured. What the hell?! He has 165HP or thereabouts. ›››

Where did you go after Saradush? I'm assuming you went straight to Yaga-Shura's fortress? Do you know what you are looking for?

Remember characters have different kinds of resistances and weaknesses. Fire giants are susceptible to magic I believe, and probably cold damage.

Check out this thread: http://www.ironworks...ead.php?t=17777

Pangaea said:

Who do you tend to play with btw, if you have never had Minsc? He's a ridiculously good fighter, at least the way I have built him, dualwielding flail of ages and crom faeyr. Do you pick up some of the guys we 'summon'? ›››

I have had Minsc several times in SoA, including my very first playthrough, After that I tried others, like Korgan, with great success. Korgan is much quieter and a much better fighter for the sole reason that he IS an actual berserker. He is also kind of funny in a bloodthirsty cartoonish dwarf kind of way, but Minsc is also cartoonishly good (morally). Korgan is also a grandmaster of the axe and you get enough proficiency points to make him master a second weapon, like the crom faeyr (very appropriate for a dwarf).

A couple of times I also played with Sarevok, who is of course an EXCELLENT fighter. He's also very smart and relatively interesting, he knows much about the planes. You should see his stats, he's impressive.

Normally my party has conflicting alignments. I like Korgan as a fighter, Cernd as a healer/battle druid, Edwin as a mage (even though he's an asshole, his interactions are hilarious), and Jan as a backup mage/thief. In my last playthrough, my fighter/thief NPC was doing lots of damage, while Jan unlocked and detected every trap, and provided magic support. Korgan was my main frontline warrior, and Viconia did the healing and clerical casting, while also participating in the squirmish (especially after improving her strength). Edwin was my main mage, and he's THE best NPC mage (except perhaps, perhaps, a PC mage). I added Haer'Dalis in for fun, he's interesting and with the right abilities/spells can be a decent fighter. His bard's song adds lots of bonuses. So he's an interesting backup with magic/fighting/thieving.

The one character I can't stand is Anomen. Self-righteous, pretentious bastard... he should have been a paladin. Keldorn on the other hand is a noble warrior, very humble for a paladin.

Normally if you start ToB by importing a SoA game, you start alone. Then you can summon your old friends to join you. If ToB starts automatically after SoA, apparently you begin with your whole party.

Did you try summoning Yoshimo?

Pangaea said:

I am using the same bunch of people as we have for virtually all of SoA, as I like them (overuse of Minsc comments aside) and the group seems well-balanced. Minsc, Keldorn, Aerie, Imoen and Jaheira, plus the thief-illusionist gnome protagonist. Next time I think I'd prefer a 'proper' mage though. Maybe dualled from fighter, to be more durable and have better thac0. The 'shorty bonus' for the gnome is great though, and it's nice with an extra spell per level from the specialisation, particularly now when he has finally gotten access to level 8 spells, so he can finally do some proper damage. Still a mile away from level 9 unfortunately /> ›››

A fighter/mage dual- or mult-class would be great. You can wear elven chain armor and specialize in katanas so that you may use Dak'kon's Zerth Blade properly (a katana in BG2). A specific version of this, the kensai/mage, is considered one of the most powerful combinations of BG2. The kensai may not wear armor, but you have magical protections for that. And after you learn Tenser's Transformation, nothing will stand in your way. This is a popular class for solo-ing the game.

[Pangaea]

.Volsung. said:

Well check your pockets. You should have, among other things, an extra set of boots of speed!

I do indeed have a third set of boots of speed, which Jaheira is using now (I've used her more as a fighter lately, as she has next to no offensive spells anyway).

Quote

Where did you go after Saradush? I'm assuming you went straight to Yaga-Shura's fortress? Do you know what you are looking for?

Remember characters have different kinds of resistances and weaknesses. Fire giants are susceptible to magic I believe, and probably cold damage.

Check out this thread: http://www.ironworks...ead.php?t=17777

Think we can only go one place actually, or two if you include Watcher's Keep. I went to the forest and so forth areas and then found some intestines. With Hardiness it was much easier to deal with those packs of fire giants. We even managed to take down the main party upstairs, though with serious magic backup in terms of horrid wilting and such. Hardiness + Greater Whirlwind = Death />

With 100 in trapsetting, I've finally learnt the awesomeness of the spike traps too. When I saw an adamantite golem pop up in the fire temple, I simply gave up and reloaded. Then spread out some spike traps. Bloke died before he could blink. Impressive as hell. Tried it in the Nyalee area too. The idea was to take down an annoying nymph, but two spike traps insta-killed one of those huge brutes instead. Very handy trick up our sleeves, the few times I can guess (or reload-"guess") where enemies will appear.

Quote

I have had Minsc several times in SoA, including my very first playthrough, After that I tried others, like Korgan, with great success. Korgan is much quieter and a much better fighter for the sole reason that he IS an actual berserker. He is also kind of funny in a bloodthirsty cartoonish dwarf kind of way, but Minsc is also cartoonishly good (morally). Korgan is also a grandmaster of the axe and you get enough proficiency points to make him master a second weapon, like the crom faeyr (very appropriate for a dwarf).

A couple of times I also played with Sarevok, who is of course an EXCELLENT fighter. He's also very smart and relatively interesting, he knows much about the planes. You should see his stats, he's impressive.

Normally my party has conflicting alignments. I like Korgan as a fighter, Cernd as a healer/battle druid, Edwin as a mage (even though he's an asshole, his interactions are hilarious), and Jan as a backup mage/thief. In my last playthrough, my fighter/thief NPC was doing lots of damage, while Jan unlocked and detected every trap, and provided magic support. Korgan was my main frontline warrior, and Viconia did the healing and clerical casting, while also participating in the squirmish (especially after improving her strength). Edwin was my main mage, and he's THE best NPC mage (except perhaps, perhaps, a PC mage). I added Haer'Dalis in for fun, he's interesting and with the right abilities/spells can be a decent fighter. His bard's song adds lots of bonuses. So he's an interesting backup with magic/fighting/thieving.

The one character I can't stand is Anomen. Self-righteous, pretentious bastard... he should have been a paladin. Keldorn on the other hand is a noble warrior, very humble for a paladin.

Normally if you start ToB by importing a SoA game, you start alone. Then you can summon your old friends to join you. If ToB starts automatically after SoA, apparently you begin with your whole party.

Did you try summoning Yoshimo?

Cannot stand Anomen either. He got killed WAY back in the beginning of SoA, and I couldn't have been happier /> No resurrection for you, douchebag. Sounds like fun to play with many of these other characters though. Maybe I will break with the norm and actually play a non-good party next time, so that practically all party members will be different. Don't they end up fighting, though, if you have good and evil NPCs?

On mages, Imoen is pretty darn awesome now. I increased her intelligence in the Machine in Watcher's Keep, so she has 18 now. Is there something else than that about Edwin that makes him such a great mage? Have also heard that Jan is hilarious, and coupled with Minsc they're a hoot. Since I can't stand Anomen and Viconia is the only other pure cleric, maybe I'll try her out next time through - whenever that is.

I summoned all characters actually. Tried Yoshimo too, and I think there was a message about how our relationship kind of went *poof*. Isn't it odd to play with Sarevok though, considering BG1? Probably a kick-ass fighter, but that would be across a red line for me, I think.

Quote

A fighter/mage dual- or mult-class would be great. You can wear elven chain armor and specialize in katanas so that you may use Dak'kon's Zerth Blade properly (a katana in BG2). A specific version of this, the kensai/mage, is considered one of the most powerful combinations of BG2. The kensai may not wear armor, but you have magical protections for that. And after you learn Tenser's Transformation, nothing will stand in your way. This is a popular class for solo-ing the game.

Have heard much about kensai, but what is so great about them? Don't think I'd like another multi'd mage next time, as it would be fun to have a high-level mage that can deal some serious damage. With a dual'ed mage that could be pretty handy, for example from fighter to make him more durable. Is it possible to set up such a character without playing it through BG1 btw?

On solo'ing, have you done that? Isn't it horribly difficult? I dread at the thought of taking down Dragons and Liches alone for example.

We have gotten a crapton of good weapons from Cespenar, and I'm starting to get in two minds about what to use. Tough to beat Carsomyr, Crom Faeyr and Flail of Ages, but the additional effects of some of the other weapons would be very handy indeed. Axe of the Unyielding +5 for example... Actually, think I'll let Minsc offhand that one for a while. Flail of Ages is "just" +4 anyway - although I do love the slow effect it has. If only he could triple-wield. What, can't Boo do something useful for once?

[.Volsung.]

Pangaea said:

Cannot stand Anomen either. He got killed WAY back in the beginning of SoA, and I couldn't have been happier />/> No resurrection for you, douchebag. Sounds like fun to play with many of these other characters though. Maybe I will break with the norm and actually play a non-good party next time, so that practically all party members will be different. Don't they end up fighting, though, if you have good and evil NPCs? ›››

It could happen. You need high enough charisma to keep your conflicting NPC's together. If they argue and fight each other, reload

Pangaea said:

On mages, Imoen is pretty darn awesome now. I increased her intelligence in the Machine in Watcher's Keep, so she has 18 now. Is there something else than that about Edwin that makes him such a great mage? Have also heard that Jan is hilarious, and coupled with Minsc they're a hoot. Since I can't stand Anomen and Viconia is the only other pure cleric, maybe I'll try her out next time through - whenever that is. ›››

Edwin has an amulet that gives him extra spells. Once you hit, for instance, level 6 spells, you get like 6 spell slots. A well-built PC pure mage can probably be just as good or even better. But Imoen with INT 18 should be plenty good. Make her wear the Robes of Vecna!

Viconia is fun to have around. Like the drow female she is, she is a seductress that might just kill you in your sleep for fun... or may compliment you on your sexual prowess. Just funny, because it is all done tastefully and through dialogue. Romance aside, she is an excellent pure evil cleric. She can wear heavy armor and wield hammers and maces, but you need to magically increase her strength.

Pangaea said:

I summoned all characters actually. Tried Yoshimo too, and I think there was a message about how our relationship kind of went *poof*. Isn't it odd to play with Sarevok though, considering BG1? Probably a kick-ass fighter, but that would be across a red line for me, I think. ›››

Well, try it. Talk to Sarevok. He is willing to be your servant, and is willing to swear an oath (forgot the in-setting name) in which he will die if he betrays you. You can always choose not to have him swear, and trust him. That changes his character ending I believe.

Pangaea said:

Have heard much about kensai, but what is so great about them? Don't think I'd like another multi'd mage next time, as it would be fun to have a high-level mage that can deal some serious damage. With a dual'ed mage that could be pretty handy, for example from fighter to make him more durable. Is it possible to set up such a character without playing it through BG1 btw? ›››

You can dualclass at the beginning of SoA and by the time you exit Irenicus' dungeon you may have your original abilities back. The usual suggestion is to dual at fighter level 9 to get some bonus. If you feel your level is too low, you can export your SoA character at any given time and restart the game importing that character, keeping your level and abilities (but not your equipment).

Alternatively you may use Shadow Keeper and pretend you played all the way through BG1...

Pangaea said:

On solo'ing, have you done that? Isn't it horribly difficult? I dread at the thought of taking down Dragons and Liches alone for example. ›››

Never did that. BG2 is great partly because of the excellent party-based interactions and combat. Solo-ing is too much powergaming for my taste.

Pangaea said:

We have gotten a crapton of good weapons from Cespenar, and I'm starting to get in two minds about what to use. Tough to beat Carsomyr, Crom Faeyr and Flail of Ages, but the additional effects of some of the other weapons would be very handy indeed. Axe of the Unyielding +5 for example... Actually, think I'll let Minsc offhand that one for a while. Flail of Ages is "just" +4 anyway - although I do love the slow effect it has. If only he could triple-wield. What, can't Boo do something useful for once? /> /> ›››

He probably already told you you can upgrade Carsomyr to be +6, and the Flail of Ages to be +5, right?

[Pangaea]

.Volsung. said:

It could happen. You need high enough charisma to keep your conflicting NPC's together. If they argue and fight each other, reload

It can be prevented with high charisma? Interesting indeed. Thought it was scripted.

Quote

Edwin has an amulet that gives him extra spells. Once you hit, for instance, level 6 spells, you get like 6 spell slots. A well-built PC pure mage can probably be just as good or even better. But Imoen with INT 18 should be plenty good. Make her wear the Robes of Vecna!

Viconia is fun to have around. Like the drow female she is, she is a seductress that might just kill you in your sleep for fun... or may compliment you on your sexual prowess. Just funny, because it is all done tastefully and through dialogue. Romance aside, she is an excellent pure evil cleric. She can wear heavy armor and wield hammers and maces, but you need to magically increase her strength.

D'OH! I've been hording the Robe of Vecna myself, since *well* before we got Imoen back. Never gave it a second thought. Imoen having it would be much better ofc, so she can get off those Horrid Wiltings faster for example. Guess it would make Improved Alacrity even more awesome too!

Viconia does sound fun, and I have missed a pure cleric. Aerie does okay turning undead, but unless they are quite low-level foes, they tend to run away (which is more annoying than useful) instead of imploding. Think I'll give her a shot next time actually. Would probably be more fun to play with totally different characters anyway, though it will be hard to drop Keldorn, and Minsc too (late annoyances aside).

Quote

Well, try it. Talk to Sarevok. He is willing to be your servant, and is willing to swear an oath (forgot the in-setting name) in which he will die if he betrays you. You can always choose not to have him swear, and trust him. That changes his character ending I believe.

Sarevok buggered off. Told him I wasn't interested in his services, and he left. Made him swear a geas first though, as I wasn't comfortable with having a maniac murderer on the loose. Looked up his stats though, and he does look great. Almost the perfect fighter.

Quote

You can dualclass at the beginning of SoA and by the time you exit Irenicus' dungeon you may have your original abilities back. The usual suggestion is to dual at fighter level 9 to get some bonus. If you feel your level is too low, you can export your SoA character at any given time and restart the game importing that character, keeping your level and abilities (but not your equipment).

Alternatively you may use Shadow Keeper and pretend you played all the way through BG1...

Thanks, might look into the ShadowKeeper option when the time comes, as that sounds easier - provided saving throws and whatever gets updated automatically from increasing the level. I don't know how that works. It's well in the distance though, as there is still plenty to go in *this* playthrough Have looked into the tables for dualing at level 9, and that seems to be best. Another half attack (lvl 13) would be nice, but not crucial. The main thing is the extra HP.

Quote

Never did that. BG2 is great partly because of the excellent party-based interactions and combat. Solo-ing is too much powergaming for my taste.

I agree. Besides, the game is difficult enough as it (at least for me), so trying to solo must feel more like work than fun. One of the huge strengths of this game is the party based tactical combat, and to lose that would make the experience more stale.

Quote

He probably already told you you can upgrade Carsomyr to be +6, and the Flail of Ages to be +5, right?

That he did; Boo is like a wise elder We're missing some items to upgrade those weapons, but I'm sure we'll find it further down the path. I've upgraded everything we can so far, and due to the vast amounts of enchanted weapons in ToB, we now have almost 300,000 gold.

A little update, as I just got out of the game. Killed the nasty giant Yaga-Shura. Was quite a fight. Don't know if I was lucky or if it's normal, but while trying to take down the welcoming party I moved Aerie northwards to safety, and then he showed up north of that wagon. That was most fortunate, because he got kind of stuck there and couldn't engage us toe-to-toe. This meant Minsc and Keldorn could take out the spawns here and there, while our mages could whack him with spells relatively safely.

Completed the second challenge too, which was quite fun. Improved Alacrity, Dragon's Breath, Comet, Abu-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting.... Shit dies!!

Although I'm *trying* to do good, I can't help but feel I am turning into my father. Will be interesting to see how that pans out story-wise. ToB actually seems even more interesting than SoA.

[Corylea]

Pangaea, I stopped reading your latest posts, because I've only just exited Spellhold, so I'm waaaay behind you. I did see, though, that you wanted to reduce Minsc's lines. I have a mod that allows the player to increase or decrease the frequency of party banter. I don't remember which one it is, but if you check the mod list at Sorcerer's Place and at The Gibberlings, you might find something.

That Chapter 4 confrontation with Irenicus reminds me of the Chapter 2 confrontation with Azar Javed in TW1 and the mid-game confrontation with Letho in TW2. In these long games, the player can't see the villain only at the beginning and the end; they need the heartening effect of catching up to the villain around the middle of the game. But of course they can't DEFEAT the villain in the middle of the game, or it's not the middle anymore, it's the end. So, how does the main character confront the villain in the middle of the game without either killing him or being killed by him?

In TW1, the Professor knocked Geralt out with a bomb, and he and Javed left before Geralt regained consciousness, which always made me wonder -- why didn't they simply run him through while he was out? Did the Grandmaster prohibit it?

In TW2, there's a battle with Letho half-way through the game that Geralt is scripted to lose, though of course he doesn't die.

Letho spares Geralt, explaining that Geralt had saved his life once before, so Letho's paying him back.

In BG2, when we kick Irenicus' ass, he says that we can have Spellhold, since he doesn't need it anymore; his plans can be put into effect anywhere. To me, that seems the most satisfying of the three. I didn't like being scripted to lose, in TW2, and having the villains run away while Geralt was helpless didn't seem to fit the villains' reputation for ruthlessness, in TW1. Having the villain teleport out while saying something face-saving in BG2, on the other hand, seemed to really fit.

Now we're in the Underdark. Geeze, this is a dangerous place. It seems as if there are hostile people every couple of feet. We messed with some doohicky and discovered that we'd released a lich. No, thanks, I'll reload.

Good thing we discovered that Bag of Holding in Spellhold, since we're now lugging around quite an arsenal.

[.Volsung.]

Glad to see you're back into BG2, Corylea.

Shadows of Amn is really a long campaign, and I agree with the mid-game confrontation being really well done. It doesn't feel cheap, you actually *have* to win that battle. But Irenicus couldn't care less, he got what he wanted. And that kind of pushes the second half of the game forward: you need to recover your soul! And perhaps, if interested, explore the Bhaal taint. Even though BG2 is relatively "epic" (as in beyond what standard D&D human(oid)s could achieve), I like that it is still personal.

In the Underdark there are a lot of dangerous, evil creatures. The main groups being the drow, the mind flayers, the beholders, and the kuo-toa. There are also duergar (dark dwarves) and svirfnebli (deep gnomes). All of these creatures are rejected in the surface, and all, except the svirfnebli maybe, are hostile towards outsiders. The drow as you probably know form a treacherous society built upon the principles of lying, deceiving and backstabbing. BG2 is very accurate in showing this little but rich part of the Underdark. You can tell they borrowed a lot from Salvatore. Even though he is a terrible writer, I think he did a good job characterizing the Underdark in The Dark Elf trilogy. He has good ideas sometimes, if only he could actually write...

I encourage you to explore everything, all major lairs and places, even if they're full of disgusting creatures. The mind flayer area is especially interesting, not because it has a huge background story but because it illustrates Dak'kon's stories of their former enslavement very well. I think you'll like that

Also don't be afraid of a minor Lich. At this point you should be able to kill simple Liches like that one. When you return to Athkatla, if you want, we can guide you through some of the most epic battles ever. You know Athkatla is famous for having several Liches? And I mean, actually old, powerful Liches.

PS: About the Professor not finishing Geralt (like a good nemesis ), maybe Jacques ordered them not to do it so Geralt could fulfill his role of taking Alvin to that village, where he would teleport during the attack?

[Pangaea]

Corylea said:

Pangaea, I stopped reading your latest posts, because I've only just exited Spellhold, so I'm waaaay behind you. I did see, though, that you wanted to reduce Minsc's lines. I have a mod that allows the player to increase or decrease the frequency of party banter. I don't remember which one it is, but if you check the mod list at Sorcerer's Place and at The Gibberlings, you might find something.

Thanks for the links Corylea. Came over this one too, but I couldn't find a mod in there that reduces these 'random' comments by NPCs. Have you got the mod installed right now? In that case you should probably be able to see its name by checking out the file WeiDU.log in the BG2 install folder.
I've reduced the character sounds in-game a few pips, so that helps, and then I increase the volume when there is quest-related voiced interaction. The music and ambience then gets very loud, but it's a half-arsed workaround. Can't believe it's come to this point though, because I love Minsc really, it's just that they've gone overboard with his comments now and it's become an annoyance rather than cute and funny Less is More definitely applies.

A very good idea to not read my posts btw, and probably most of Volsung's too. This last page or two especially I've barely used spoiler tags at all, as this thread became basically a discussion on my progress between Volsung and myself. You have so much fun ahead of you! The Underdark was very difficult at times, and I gave up on that prison-thing for a while too. There's lots of lore and interesting events though, so I'm sure you'll enjoy it. Volsung's comment on the Mindflayer lair is very apt. Memorise a few Chaotic Commands before going in though

Quote

That Chapter 4 confrontation with Irenicus reminds me of the Chapter 2 confrontation with Azar Javed in TW1 and the mid-game confrontation with Letho in TW2. In these long games, the player can't see the villain only at the beginning and the end; they need the heartening effect of catching up to the villain around the middle of the game. But of course they can't DEFEAT the villain in the middle of the game, or it's not the middle anymore, it's the end. So, how does the main character confront the villain in the middle of the game without either killing him or being killed by him?

In TW1, the Professor knocked Geralt out with a bomb, and he and Javed left before Geralt regained consciousness, which always made me wonder -- why didn't they simply run him through while he was out? Did the Grandmaster prohibit it?

In BG2, when we kick Irenicus' ass, he says that we can have Spellhold, since he doesn't need it anymore; his plans can be put into effect anywhere. To me, that seems the most satisfying of the three. I didn't like being scripted to lose, in TW2, and having the villains run away while Geralt was helpless didn't seem to fit the villains' reputation for ruthlessness, in TW1. Having the villain teleport out while saying something face-saving in BG2, on the other hand, seemed to really fit.

Very good point. It grated me a little how this was done in TW1 too. I love the game, truly do, but the way things transpired there, he could easily have wiped Geralt. It felt a bit "off". It works better in BG2. Think I enjoyed the boss mechanic in BG1 better, though. We never knew what was going on there, who is the über-bad guy, unlike in BG2. In BG1 the revelation is postponed to the end-game, which made it more exciting to play the first time, trying to figure out what was going on.

Quote

Good thing we discovered that Bag of Holding in Spellhold, since we're now lugging around quite an arsenal.

Learning from BG1, this is why I used the bottomless bags tweak. It's pretty absurd to be able to walk around with 16 Full Plate Mail armours or 20-odd swords, as I had done yesterday, but it makes inventory management much less of a hassle. Also, when I get good weapons here and there that none of us can really use, I can just stick it in the bag and either sell it later or hope it can be re-forged by one of the smithies. It's the same reason why I preferred the quick access to Inn storage mod in TW1. Think it was called "Things that make Geralt's life easier." Was that one of your mods btw?

[Corylea]

.Volsung. said:

Glad to see you're back into BG2, Corylea.

I'm glad to BE back into it. It's such a long game, though, that I got a bit tired and had to take a break. It's also true that with my variable health, I can only play games where people are trying to kill you sometimes. When my health is extra-poor, I have to either read or play games where people aren't trying to kill you, like The Sims 3 or Fishdom. And when my health is at its best, I work on the game I'm making. So I can only play "dangerous" games when my health is at a medium level.

.Volsung. said:

Shadows of Amn is really a long campaign, and I agree with the mid-game confrontation being really well done. It doesn't feel cheap, you actually *have* to win that battle. But Irenicus couldn't care less, he got what he wanted. And that kind of pushes the second half of the game forward: you need to recover your soul! And perhaps, if interested, explore the Bhaal taint. Even though BG2 is relatively "epic" (as in beyond what standard D&D human(oid)s could achieve), I like that it is still personal.

Yes! I know a lot of people like having a rich political situation, but I prefer having a rich personal situation. Between revenge for the earlier stuff, getting back my soul, finding that Imoen is my sister, and being even more Bhallized, there's certainly plenty going on here.

.Volsung. said:

You can tell they borrowed a lot from Salvatore. Even though he is a terrible writer, I think he did a good job characterizing the Underdark in The Dark Elf trilogy. He has good ideas sometimes, if only he could actually write...

Thanks for the Underdark lore. I've never read Salvatore, since I heard he was terrible. It sounds like you agree that he's terrible but think he's worth reading anyway.

.Volsung. said:

I encourage you to explore everything, all major lairs and places, even if they're full of disgusting creatures.

Ride all the rides and see all the sights is my usual approach to playing RPG's. The one exception was that I raced through my first playing of TW1, because I really wanted to know who had raised Geralt from the dead and why and what had happened to his memory ... only to discover that nothing about this is revealed at the end of the game -- argh! I was very sorry to have raced through my first play-through of TW1; one only gets that experience once.

.Volsung. said:

The mind flayer area is especially interesting, not because it has a huge background story but because it illustrates Dak'kon's stories of their former enslavement very well. I think you'll like that

Mind-flayers scare me spitless, but now that you've mentioned Dak'kon, I have to go there. Thanks, I guess.

.Volsung. said:

Also don't be afraid of a minor Lich. At this point you should be able to kill simple Liches like that one.

Ah, okay, that's good to know. Thanks.

There are dangerous things every five feet in this place, and we're running out of protective spells...

.Volsung. said:

When you return to Athkatla, if you want, we can guide you through some of the most epic battles ever. You know Athkatla is famous for having several Liches? And I mean, actually old, powerful Liches.

I guess I can't let sleeping liches lie?

.Volsung. said:

PS: About the Professor not finishing Geralt (like a good nemesis ), maybe Jacques ordered them not to do it so Geralt could fulfill his role of taking Alvin to that village, where he would teleport during the attack? ›››

Yes, in my original summary, I speculated that the Grandmaster had prohibited Geralt's murder, which was why they fled instead of finishing him off. It would have been nice if they'd muttered something like "HE won't let us kill this one. Pity."

[Corylea]

Sorry for the double post, but the #@$% forum software wouldn't let me reply to both of you in the same post.

Pangaea said:

I couldn't find a mod in there that reduces these 'random' comments by NPCs. Have you got the mod installed right now? In that case you should probably be able to see its name by checking out the file WeiDU.log in the BG2 install folder.

I looked there but didn't find anything that sounded likely. Sorry.

Pangaea said:

I've reduced the character sounds in-game a few pips, so that helps, and then I increase the volume when there is quest-related voiced interaction. The music and ambience then gets very loud, but it's a half-arsed workaround. Can't believe it's come to this point though, because I love Minsc really, it's just that they've gone overboard with his comments now and it's become an annoyance rather than cute and funny />/>/> Less is More definitely applies.

There's a page at PlanetBaldur'sGate that tells players how to set their own sounds for custom characters. It has a list of what all the sounds do, so you could use that list to simply remove those of Minsc's sounds that you're tired of hearing.

When we went to the Druid's Grove, earlier in the game, I was surprised and pleased to find that Minsc had special lines just for that situation. The forest LIKES Boo? Really?

Pangaea said:

A very good idea to not read my posts btw, and probably most of Volsung's too. This last page or two especially I've barely used spoiler tags at all, as this thread became basically a discussion on my progress between Volsung and myself.

I need to go back and find the point where you report on the battle at the end of Chapter 4, to see what you thought of the part I've just done. Did you take the portal to the Underdark or take the boat with whatshisname? Since the boat captain had already betrayed us once (and if you don't bring Yoshimo to the party, he's also the one who put the drugs in your food that enabled Irenicus to steal your soul), I took the portal. I understand that there are additional adventures before getting to the Underdark if one takes the boat, but it just didn't feel right from a role-playing perspective -- surely my character wouldn't trust someone who'd already betrayed her so thoroughly, plus Irenicus has her soul, so she'd want to go after him by the quickest route.

And did you notice in the cutscene between Chapters 4 and 5, Irenicus casts TWO Disintegrate spells in the time between one word and the next? Funny, when MY characters look up Disintegrate, they have a casting time of 6. The game cheats for Irenicus -- no fair!

Pangaea said:

You have so much fun ahead of you!

*smile*

Pangaea said:

Think I enjoyed the boss mechanic in BG1 better, though. We never knew what was going on there, who is the über-bad guy, unlike in BG2. In BG1 the revelation is postponed to the end-game, which made it more exciting to play the first time, trying to figure out what was going on.

Curiosity is a very strong motivator for me, so "What the hell is going on?" is a good way to push me through a long game.

Pangaea said:

Learning from BG1, this is why I used the bottomless bags tweak. It's pretty absurd to be able to walk around with 16 Full Plate Mail armours or 20-odd swords, as I had done yesterday, but it makes inventory management much less of a hassle. Also, when I get good weapons here and there that none of us can really use, I can just stick it in the bag and either sell it later or hope it can be re-forged by one of the smithies.

If there's a conflict between fun and realism -- or a conflict between annoyance-reduction and realism -- I usually go for fun and/or annoyance reduction, so I have the bottomless bags mod, too. And the game has lots of magic in it already, so those cases and stuff can simply be magic.

Pangaea said:

It's the same reason why I preferred the quick access to Inn storage mod in TW1. Think it was called "Things that make Geralt's life easier." Was that one of your mods btw? ›››

The "Stuff that makes Geralt's life easier" mod was made by J_Slash before I ever even though of modding. It's the one mod I wouldn't play without. I love being able to use the "rest anywhere" portion of the mod in Chapter 3 when I'm supposed to be living at Triss' house ... but can't actually sleep there unless Triss is present. WTF?

[Pangaea]

Corylea said:

There's a page at PlanetBaldur'sGate that tells players how to set their own sounds for custom characters. It has a list of what all the sounds do, so you could use that list to simply remove those of Minsc's sounds that you're tired of hearing.

Found that page earlier when searching for a solution too, but it looks like this is only for sounds the main character can use. When I click on Customize for e.g. Minsc, the Sound option is greyed (unlike for the PC). Looks like I just have to endure it for the time being. The workaround works okay, with lower character sounds. Far from perfect, but it's better than hearing Minsc cry out his lines all the time at full blast.

Quote

I need to go back and find the point where you report on the battle at the end of Chapter 4, to see what you thought of the part I've just done. Did you take the portal to the Underdark or take the boat with whatshisname? Since the boat captain had already betrayed us once (and if you don't bring Yoshimo to the party, he's also the one who put the drugs in your food that enabled Irenicus to steal your soul), I took the portal. I understand that there are additional adventures before getting to the Underdark if one takes the boat, but it just didn't feel right from a role-playing perspective -- surely my character wouldn't trust someone who'd already betrayed her so thoroughly, plus Irenicus has her soul, so she'd want to go after him by the quickest route.

And did you notice in the cutscene between Chapters 4 and 5, Irenicus casts TWO Disintegrate spells in the time between one word and the next? Funny, when MY characters look up Disintegrate, they have a casting time of 6. The game cheats for Irenicus -- no fair!

The battle itself was a lot of fun. On the immediate course of action after that, I took the boat. Had no idea (at the time) there would be more areas by taking that route, but my thinking was that it might be better to meet up with that chap in the bar rather than going through the portal. Maybe he would have more information for us, or something else might happen. Glad I did it, because I really liked the Seaworld. It had some wonderful art and scenery. Some lore too, as I learned more about the fight between the suagin and the drow.
On Yoshimo: I remember when we came across him in the dungeon. I was ready to kick his butt right there, but then it turned out we could recruit him. Didn't trust him at all, but then he kind of grew into the group and he stayed. Glad I kept him as it's important story-wise, but at least the initial "Do NOT trust this guy" reaction was correct. Then again, it usually is for ALL characters we meet

There was a fight at some point that I commented, where the mages threw magics around more frequent than once a round. So I think the game cheats from time to time. It definitely does in cutscenes. Just remember the attack sequence outside Candlekeep too. Lots of magic flying around, and certainly not once a round. It looks better though, which is probably why they did it like that, instead of having characters stare angrily at each other for 5 seconds, then fire off another spell.


Had another look at the Kensai/Mage deal. Totally forgot that we start with so little XP, so of course we'd need to dual him in the game itself, as we start at only level 7. Find it odd we start with 89,000 XP instead of 161,000 though, as that's the cap after the BG1 expansion. Thought the downsides look pretty grim though. Unable to wear armour, robes, bracers or gauntlets? That sounds pretty damn limiting. My reason for starting with a fighter was basically just to get more health and thus survivability. I wouldn't want to go toe-to-toe with that character anyway, as the idea was to get high-level mage spells with him. So how would you typically play with a kensai/mage? What equipment to pick up, what proficiencies to select? I see we can get grandmastery, but is that even worth it, instead of being proficient in many weapons? 5 pips compared with 2 doesn't really gain a great deal, without the True Grandmastery tweak. After dualling to a mage, can he use slings, or would the kensai still block any ranged weapon (bar throwing axes and such)? What weapons are best to use?

If I were to use the Kensai/Mage, though, it looks best to dual at level 9. That gives lots of HP, pretty decent saves, good THAC0, and 7 proficiencies. Plus the various benefits the kensai gets.

Was having a wee think about who I might select in the party. If I try to choose different characters, it might be something like this
Kensai/Mage PC
Edwin Mage
Jan Illusionist/Thief
Viconia Cleric
Korgan Berserker
Keldorn or Minsc for another fighter - or alternatively Mazzy, though I think she was ranged, and I need some toe-to-toe'ing to hold people off our 3 mages.

Would this work, or would Keldorn or Minsc butt heads with everybody? This would basically be an evil party though, and trying to keep a low reputation (and being evil) flies in the face of how I like to play. Would be very strange to not play with Imoen too

Starting yet another playthrough shouldn't exactly be on top of the priority list, but I'm thinking out loud here Still have a lot left of ToB.